by "functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
Published 01/31/2017 at 10:03
by "functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
Published 01/31/2017 at 10:03
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STARS: 0
My wife and I are considering a replacement for her car, and looking for something more efficient than her 2007 X3. Although it’s a manual, she’s only making about 22mpg on her 90% highway commute which is around 100 miles total every day.
She brought up the possibility of a Jeep Grand Cherokee with the diesel engine this morning, and I hadn’t even really considered it until now. I know they came out in 2014 so there are plenty of used ones in the $30k range now - no way I could swallow a $57k car purchase, let alone a Jeep.
The sad truth is we can buy a lot of tanks of gas for the premium of a (new) diesel. It seems that upcharge is knocked down quite a bit in the used market, although of course the diesel still pulls somewhat of a premium. At 30mpg over 22, it would be a long payback, especially since the X3 is long since paid for.
A bit of poking around on the forums suggests that they have some minor sensor issues causing repeat CEL popups (this does not bother me as the owner of TWO old BMWs) and a lot of people have said they’ve had a full catalytic converter replacement - usually under 50k miles, and many under 15k! But that would be warrantied, and presumably that wouldn’t have to happen again in the near future? Otherwise, this engine, while new to the US market, isn’t uncommon or untested in other markets, and seems to have a good reputation. How about that ZF 8-speed?
While the ideal car for her might be a Model 3, that’s a bit of a distant hope at the moment. We could also use a bigger car for when we all go somewhere as a family. Neither her X3 nor my 3-er wagon really has the space for 4 people and a dog, plus our weekend stuff. Kids have a lot of crap!
My college roommate had a 1995 GC and I still remember how comfy that thing was. These look like genuinely nice cars on the inside, handsome on the outside, and the diesel is an attractive option. Hell, I could tow my boat with this thing, which I wouldn’t even consider with a manual X3. That’s the sad part, it would bring an automatic into our household. Blasphemy! But what’s my alternative? A manual Taco that gets 19 mpg? A Golf TDI
and
an old Suburban? Maybe.
What else should I know about these things? Does anyone here have one?
"Party-vi" (party-vi)
01/31/2017 at 10:14, STARS: 4
She’s driving 100 miles a day in an SUV? Why not keep the X3 as a spare and get something more efficient?
"getFuckedHerb" (goongetfuckedherb)
01/31/2017 at 10:15, STARS: 2
I’ve put 75k on our 2014 GC Diesel we bought brand new, AMA.
We had the DPF Filter completely replaced under warranty, as well as the def injector which clogged. Ours is air-ride equipped which has occasionally tossed the old “Service Air Ride” note but never actually broken.
Downsides: you need to put def in it unless you toss the DPF and put an off road tune on it. (who would do that?!) and oil changes are more expensive.
Upside: we got a few toys on ours, it’s very nice to ride in for long hauls. After a 1/2 ton pickup got 8mpg towing an enclosed trailer we hooked on for the return journey and averaged 13 at a speed 5mph faster.
We can easily get 32+mpg on 55/60 mph roads. My wife commutes 55 miles a day and averages 24-25 but a large % of it is on an 80mph speed limit interstate which she drives 83/84 on. It does not do as well at 83/84mph.
Transmission has had no issues for us. We have the highest off road / trailer packages available and it has done admirably in the snow when required.
Again, feel free to ask any questions.
"themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles" (themanwithsauce)
01/31/2017 at 10:29, STARS: 0
^This. A CPO toyota or honda or ford or chevrolet sedan (basically anything besides a chrysler 200) will pull much better highway mpg while being cheaper to buy, own, and insure. You could use the X3 as a trade in or just put nice tires on it and keep it around for bad weather or when you need to carry a big thing.
"Future next gen S2000 owner" (future-next-gen-s2000-owner)
01/31/2017 at 10:34, STARS: 1
I think the 3.0 liter diesel has had some teething issues. I would check into it.
Manual Taco’s can get 25 highway if you are easy on the throttle. I am averaging 22 mpg, mostly highway commuting in rush hour.
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
01/31/2017 at 10:53, STARS: 0
If you’re looking for something that’s more efficient, primarily for saving the monies, BMW and Jeep don’t immediately jump to mind. If you need the space for carrying family and a dog and towing a boat, yet still want efficiency, 2 vehicles seems like a good idea.
"nermal" (nermal)
01/31/2017 at 10:59, STARS: 1
The key to keeping modern diesels happy is frequent, long trips at highway speeds. What kills their emissions systems is short trips at slow speeds and extended idling. Sounds like one would fit well for your use case.
"Party-vi" (party-vi)
01/31/2017 at 11:04, STARS: 1
I’m fortunate enough to have a Honda Pilot as a spare car. It’s extremely useful for vacations and trips, but those only occur a handful of times a year. I’d rather pay $100 a day for an SUV to rent 10 days a year than $500 a month for 6 years on an SUV I would need to purchase.
"avalonian" (avalonain19)
01/31/2017 at 11:08, STARS: 0
I definitely agree my mom has a pilot and its a great cruiser, VTEC is delicious, and that would possibly be a better alternative as opposed to a Jeep. Pilots can tow and get solid MPG
"Party-vi" (party-vi)
01/31/2017 at 11:14, STARS: 0
A new Pilot should see the same MPG as a Grand Cherokee diesel, all on regular gas and without the diesel premium.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
01/31/2017 at 11:24, STARS: 1
I know the original WK Grand Cherokee CRD had its fair share of issues. So does the WK in general. Not sure how much of that has been remedied with the current WK2.
The ZF 8-speed has been awesome when I’ve tried it in BMWs but not sure how it performs in FCA products. My former boss had a WK2 with the Pentastar V6 and shifts seemed smooth when I rode with him in it but I didn’t drive it myself.
I can tell you that the WK2 is not a particularly roomy vehicle. The back seat is ok but not overly big. The cargo area is good sized but I’m not sure how much luggage would fit back there while leaving room for a dog.
Basically any vehicle that gives you appreciably more space than the X3 is going to be a 3-row crossover, and give only a marginal improvement in economy, but you could also get one that runs on regular instead of premium and save some money there.
Not sure if you want to spend this much, but the new Mazda CX-9 gets 26 hwy mpg on regular gas and has a torquey 250 hp turbo 4. Only thing is it starts at $33k and tops out at $45k. To get in the very nicely equipped range you’re looking at $41k.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
01/31/2017 at 11:25, STARS: 0
That’s a possibility, but in reality we might be better off with replacing the X3 with ONE vehicle that’s a bit larger than our current cars. She could also take my car half the time but then I’m driving a 5,500lb SUV around town hauling only two small people most of the time. So a third car is a definite option.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
01/31/2017 at 11:27, STARS: 0
I think we would want something at least as big as the Pilot for the third vehicle... it would be nice to have. A suburban would really be ideal because of the infrequent use.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
01/31/2017 at 11:29, STARS: 0
Thanks for the info! I don’t know anything about these injection systems, or their likelihood of failure. I guess it’s just another thing... I don’t expect we’d have a warranty. Or should we make that a condition if we were to look at these seriously? Like, a CPO or equivalent. I’ve never owned a car with a warranty and wee aren’t near a dealer.
Another aspect is the infotainment thing... I think generally they’re stupid. But you have to live with them now, I guess. How do you like it? How do you use it?
"Monkey B" (monkeyb)
01/31/2017 at 11:29, STARS: 0
as one who does some work for a Chrysler Jeep Ram dealer I say no. Their head tech is my mechanic on the side, I’ve seen too many in for engine replacement.
"avalonian" (avalonain19)
01/31/2017 at 11:33, STARS: 0
Touche, however they’re using it for commuting and the occasional travel. The jeep could be overkill no?
"gawdzillla" (gawdzillla)
01/31/2017 at 11:52, STARS: 0
as long as you can still get the lifetime warranty on this used one you are good
there’s a reason FCA is the only company that still do lifetime warranty ....
"getFuckedHerb" (goongetfuckedherb)
01/31/2017 at 12:03, STARS: 1
DEF injection system is just another injector in the exhaust that sprays DEF (Urea) in. You have to put about 5 gallons into the system every 10,000 miles or so. Secret to DEF is to buy it fresh and use it fresh. DO NOT be tempted to fill the tank and have 5-10 gallons “on hand” it goes bad, adn when it does the system knows, and if the system craps out due to bad DEF and the dealership tests it and it’s bad, the bill is on you to drain it and fill it with good fluid. I Put 2.5 gallons in at a time, it’s not a big hassel, every major store has it now days and most gas stations have it.
I’m not worried about being out of warranty personally but then again maybe we’ve just gotten the peach out of the batch. The injector failure and DPF replacement were very early in the trucks life (15k miles) so we’ve got a lot of miles between then and now under her belt. Outside of those hiccups it’s just oil changes and a few updates to the infotainment system (which you can download and install yourself)
As you have noted the engine architecture isn’t really new/different than what has been used elsewhere so it’s mostly proven. The 8spd unit is the one they put behind the v8 to handle the torque so it’s plenty beefy imho.
The infotainment system is fine and works well. It is not laggy for hte most part. I do not like that I have to use it to turn on/off heated seats etc but it works well for the functions we’ve asked of it. Generally ours stays put on the radio screen (wife loves XM) and I flip to controls to adjust butt warmer/cooler/steeringwheel warmer. We don’t use a ton of the other stuff frequently anymore.
One thing that does suck is that you have to pay yearly to use the rather good app that lets you remote start/lock/unlock from your smartphone. Other items (like streaming pandora using the built in app but using your phones data) is fine and works still but it’s a premium to remote activate stuff. The remote activation works really well out here in boonie land even where the car’s modem (is it ATT? Sprint? forget..) mostly has 1x most of the time. It takes a minute or two to get the command but the remote unlock has saved our bacon once or twice.
We do have both phones (android devices) paired via bluetooth and it’s seamless and reliable and very easy to use, we quite like it.
Only other thing we’ve spent money on are replacement batteries for the key fobs. Apparently being active fobs like they are for keyless eats a little more battery. Upside is the display inthe truck popped up and said “Hey batteries are low!” a week before I noticed any issues unlocking/remote starting.
"getFuckedHerb" (goongetfuckedherb)
01/31/2017 at 12:04, STARS: 1
Oh and there is a former FCA powertrain engineer that worked on this truck on Oppo, he’ll pop in eventually I’m sure. I wouldn’t be scared of picking one up personally, we’ve thought aobut replacing my 175,000 mile Rav4 with a used 2014.
"Party-vi" (party-vi)
01/31/2017 at 12:29, STARS: 0
I meant that the Pilot is the better option.
"Party-vi" (party-vi)
01/31/2017 at 12:32, STARS: 0
A suburban is enormous, and hugely expensive. Plus the pilot should have enough room for kids stuff and a dog.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
01/31/2017 at 12:51, STARS: 0
A Tacoma is only a half-serious suggestion, as it’s one larger vehicle that can be had with a manual still. I’m sure it’s not the best highway commuter, where she’s going 75 for ~40 miles each way and there’s never any traffic.
But I would love to have one, if she could then get something small and efficient. Replacing both our cars isn’t really in the cards though.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
01/31/2017 at 12:53, STARS: 0
We could also get an older Pilot, probably, for pretty cheap. Hmm...
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
01/31/2017 at 13:13, STARS: 0
Interesting, and thanks again for the great info. This would likely be NEXT summer for us, but I like to think way ahead with car purchases. Hasty car purchases do not usually play out very well. So anyway, this is great info and I think we would look hard at one of these as an option...
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
01/31/2017 at 13:15, STARS: 0
The CX-9 is an interesting option... we go back and forth between a larger car and a smaller, more efficient one. But then we’d probably want to sell the X3 and have the “spare” car be something much bigger than my 325 wagon... which the X3 isn’t. I know the CX-9 would be nice to drive, though, and they are nice to look at too.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
01/31/2017 at 13:17, STARS: 0
It’s funny, the biggest reason we don’t have a TDI VW right now is the huge premium they were getting back when we were looking at cars to replace my wife’s Volvo S40 once we had kids.
Now, of course, there may be an opportunity to have one of the later-model ones with “the fix” and I am sure the prices would be lower than pre-dieselgate. But then, do I really want a VW diesel right now?
"avalonian" (avalonain19)
01/31/2017 at 15:26, STARS: 1
Boom, problem solved,used pilot FTW!