by "FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem" (fuelstratifiedinjection)
Published 01/30/2017 at 10:10
by "FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem" (fuelstratifiedinjection)
Published 01/30/2017 at 10:10
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STARS: 5
"Nerd-Vol" (Nerd-Vol)
01/30/2017 at 10:16, STARS: 3
Good truck, but it seems to live in the F-150 Lightning’s shadow.
Also, I’ve been on here for over 5 years now. I still have no clue what “hour rule” is all about.
"Funktheduck" (funktheduck)
01/30/2017 at 10:17, STARS: 2
You don’t have to understand the hour rule. The hour rule will find you and with it, knowledge.
"Pickup_man" (zekeh)
01/30/2017 at 10:18, STARS: 1
I want one of these so bad.
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
01/30/2017 at 10:19, STARS: 1
Hour rule posts occur when Oppo hasn’t seen a post in an hour. Someone posts to keep the dream alive.
This post, however, appears to be a misfire. The previous post was five minutes prior....
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
01/30/2017 at 10:28, STARS: 1
Saw one do the 1/8 mile drage, was dissapoint.
"Nerd-Vol" (Nerd-Vol)
01/30/2017 at 10:28, STARS: 0
THANK YOU! That makes great sense and I would have never figured it out.
"Butsen Katsun" (butsenkatsun)
01/30/2017 at 10:33, STARS: 2
I need to see a 454SS and a 1st gen Lightning duke it out on the 1/4, and on a road course. And throw in a Syclone for shits and giggles.
"Urambo Tauro" (urambotauro)
01/30/2017 at 10:38, STARS: 1
Are these trucks technically mid-engine? ;)
I know that sounds absurd, but if the center of the engine is behind the center of the front wheels, doesn’t that count? Honestly, I’m not sure where you’re supposed to draw the line, but it seems like finding the center of the block would be easier than trying to find the center of mass and trying to decide whether the accessories are supposed to count too.
"Racin'Jason001" (racinjason001)
01/30/2017 at 10:38, STARS: 1
“Nothin’ works like a Chevy truck.”
"cletus44 aka Clayton Seams" (cletus44)
01/30/2017 at 10:44, STARS: 0
They’re kinda less than the sum of their parts.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
01/30/2017 at 10:44, STARS: 2
These looked great and were pretty speedy for their time, but any off the showroom truck would work it these days. Trucks have gotten crazy fast. with the right final drive you could get an ecoboost 3.5 to 60 in close to 5 seconds.
"FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem" (fuelstratifiedinjection)
01/30/2017 at 10:46, STARS: 1
Hm, now that I think of it your theory sounds plausible. The Vette is front mid-engined.
"FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem" (fuelstratifiedinjection)
01/30/2017 at 10:47, STARS: 0
Now imagine a modern performance truck! Chevy had a promising concept truck that a couple of years ago that sadly never saw production.
"FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem" (fuelstratifiedinjection)
01/30/2017 at 10:48, STARS: 1
Me too.
"FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem" (fuelstratifiedinjection)
01/30/2017 at 10:48, STARS: 2
I’d actually pay to watch that.
"FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem" (fuelstratifiedinjection)
01/30/2017 at 10:50, STARS: 2
The very first time I got to drive a vehicle was in a 92 1500 Chevy W/T with the paint peeling of but it still drove like a champion.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
01/30/2017 at 10:50, STARS: 1
By the “center of the block behind the line of the front wheels” standard, almost every FR would count as FMR. I tend to apply a more demanding standard of “all combustion space behind front wheel centerline”. That net catches the modern Corvette and most others recognized as clearly FMR without getting lost in the weeds of “but what about the fan/timing cover/pulleys/etc.” Is cylinder #1 completely behind the front axle line? Okay, good.
I think that also has more of an import on the dynamic qualities of FMR as opposed to FR - if the center of gravity of the engine is only barely behind the front wheel centerline, it will be (dynamically) ahead of it during any cornering or braking. If the vast majority of the engine is behind it, however, the dynamic effects will be more distinct, and more comparable to an RMR.
"Urambo Tauro" (urambotauro)
01/30/2017 at 11:01, STARS: 0
Yeah, I mean I’m certainly reluctant to start granting “mid engine” status to so many cars... But strictly speaking, you have to draw the line somewhere, and if it counts, I guess it counts.
To be fair, the whole point of declaring something as front- or mid- engined has to do with the weight of the engine, which is why I suggested using center of mass. Using “combustion space” would help maintain our perception of certain cars, but it pains me to say that ultimately, it might not be relevant to what we’re trying to define.
Dynamic weight is a really interesting angle, but it seems unfair to use a sliding scale. In a similar way, even the “FMR” designation itself seems to be a grey area.
"Ash78, voting early and often" (ash78)
01/30/2017 at 11:08, STARS: 1
thump, thump, thump...it’s heeeartbeat of America...thump, thump...that’s todaaaay’s Chevy Truck. (yes, I still remember the ad jingle. For non-trucks, it was just “today’s Chevrolet”)
"Nerd-Vol" (Nerd-Vol)
01/30/2017 at 11:12, STARS: 1
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
http://www.stangbangers.com/93_LightningVsChevy454SS_Article.htm
"FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem" (fuelstratifiedinjection)
01/30/2017 at 11:13, STARS: 1
Like a rock, hot dogs apple pie and Chevrolet... Now I have the urge to watch 80s and 90s Detroit promo material.
"DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!" (daft-ryosuke)
01/30/2017 at 11:19, STARS: 0
My bets are on the Syclone.
"Funktheduck" (funktheduck)
01/30/2017 at 11:29, STARS: 0
I think my response was a much clearer explanation
"bwp240" (bwp240)
01/30/2017 at 11:38, STARS: 1
(*cough*)
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
01/30/2017 at 12:12, STARS: 1
Mostly, I go with combustion space because it’s guaranteed to be a distinctly behaving subset of c.g. and it’s really easy to identify. I.e. “Is the *block*/crank mass” behind the front wheels?” If a car is in steady state, only the overall c.g. matters. Overall c.g. is usually informed by engine location, but not dictated. So, what is most relevant are two factors - the moment of inertia around the c.g’s transverse axis (pitch) and the moment of inertia around the c.g.’s longitudinal axis (yaw), with the relation to points of force (wheels). You ask yourself how hard the car would be to turn or pitch in unsupported space, and how hard it would be for the wheels to turn or pitch it.
Engine location dictates broadly a trend for each of three conditions - acceleration, turning, braking. In other words, dynamic reactions are almost the only ones that matter, so where the engine *acts like it is* is more important than where it is in steady state.
FR: dive under braking, strongly muted upward pitch under acceleration, understeer *or* unloaded oversteer under neutral turning depending on harshness. Moving the engine further back between the wheels reduces dive *slightly*, not much effect on upward pitch. Relative magnitude of pitch/turn behavior is moment of inertia-based.
FF: Much as above, more pronounced understeer.
RR: Strongly muted dive under braking, upward pitch under acceleration, mild oversteer bleeding into snap (loaded) oversteer or understeer depending on conditions.
FMR: muted dive under braking, strongly muted upward pitch under acceleration. Relatively neutral turning
RMR: strongly muted dive under braking, muted upward pitch under acceleration. Relatively neutral turning.
If the dynamic “lever” formed to act on the wheels by the car center of gravity and the center of gravity of the engine has the engine “pushing” ahead of the front wheels under most typical braking it will be lifting the rear wheels. If that line of force is behind, it will not. A reversed version of this is in effect for rear engines and the rear wheels viz. acceleration
There are breakover points for acceleration for RMR and braking for FMR where the line of force from the center of gravity of the engine will pass through the wheel centerline and it will act more like an RR or FR, and if our engine only just has the c.g. behind the line (or in front) that transition will be almost instant. However, if the car has a *big* MOI, it’s... relatively harder to lift/drop the car instantaneously.
Really, the only reason we care so much about the engine is that it’s almost always the highest substantial mass, and the higher the mass, the more dynamic shift occurs, so categorizing what the shift will *do* is important. Hence FR, FF, FMR, RR, RMR...
All that is to say that if the *whole block* is behind the front wheels/in front of the back wheels, it generalizes closer to the ideal.
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
01/30/2017 at 12:59, STARS: 0
16.7 1/4 mile, ouch that is slow.
"Nerd-Vol" (Nerd-Vol)
01/30/2017 at 13:05, STARS: 0
Progress is a cruel mistress.
"Urambo Tauro" (urambotauro)
01/30/2017 at 15:14, STARS: 0
Lots of really interesting points there. Yeah, the engine placement is really important because of its weight, not its function. That will be important to keep in mind when trying to categorize an EV, which has so much of its weight coming from the “fuel tank”(batteries), rather than the “engine”(motors).
But for typical ICE cars, the engine still remains the key source of weight. The more I think about it, the more I’m convinced that you’re right about weight being the deciding factor in determining engine layout, and we should be focusing more on that than on its anatomy. It’s neat to look at dynamic weight shifting, but that might be going too far, partly because of all the variables (brakes, tires, severity of driver input, etc.), and also because of how it goes both forward and rearward with regard to acceleration and deceleration.
Ultimately, (thanks in no small part to EVs) cars might one day have to be classified according to overall weight distribution, and not just engine placement. We might still have “FR”, “MR”, etc., but the definitions will be more specific.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
01/30/2017 at 15:21, STARS: 0
Yeah. I got a wee bit complicated there, but the basics are that there is a continuum of behavioral reactions, and it’s probably better to base a breakdown on what the given geometry will do/act like than necessarily the aesthetics of the thing. Also, brake force tends to be more pronounced in effect than accelerating force, and proximity to the more important cornering wheels. Hence my FR/FMR rule of thumb using the-whole-block-but-not-accessories.
"Butsen Katsun" (butsenkatsun)
01/31/2017 at 00:45, STARS: 1
That article was great, and I loved the sidebar about the V8 Dakota. Sport trucks are neat.