by "lutze" (lutze)
Published 01/26/2017 at 06:07
by "lutze" (lutze)
Published 01/26/2017 at 06:07
Tags: city car
; help me pick a car
; Recommendations
; 2+2
; etc
; Oppositelock
STARS: 0
On today’s edition of Help Me Pick My New Car, we’ve got a doozy:
I live in a city and parking sucks. I want to find a car that I can put 4 adults in, will behave well at speed on the highway, but won’t be a PITA to park in my relatively tight parking spot. For scale, an A4 is probably too big.
The default choice is a Golf, and if I have to I will , but I only want to pick that if there’s no other choice, because that’s too easy and I’m a special snowflake, ya hear?
There’s lots of compact touring cars with “4" seats, but we all know those back seats are in-name-only, so they’re really 2-seaters and don’t count.
Denizens of Oppo, can you help?
Edit, 27 Jan:
Big thanks to everyone for the help. Our list at the moment is going to include:
1. Das Golf
2. Mini 5-door and maybe a Countryman (didn’t know the 5-door existed til yesterday!)
3. BMW 1er 5-door
4. BMW 2er coupe (gotta see about those rear seats)
5. An Audi A3 Sportback or Sedan, cause the sedans are somethin’ cute I tell you what.
Unfortunately, my trust fund manager told me the Rolls was out of my budget, and also that I don’t have a trust fund, and who was I and why was I in his office? So I think that fell off the list.
Big thanks again and I’ll let y’all know what ends up being the winner.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
01/26/2017 at 06:19, STARS: 4
The entire point of a 2+2 is that it’s not a 4-seater, it’s a 2 seater plus two emergency seats.
How tall are the adults?
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
01/26/2017 at 06:19, STARS: 0
New new and what’s your budget?
"Birddog" (maintmgt)
01/26/2017 at 06:33, STARS: 7
A 2+2 that actually seats four humans? Pontiac has you covered!
It even has 2+2 badges!
Go retro!
"Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies" (jordanwphillips)
01/26/2017 at 06:39, STARS: 3
Rolls-Royce Wraith
"Montalvo" (m5goesroundtheoutside)
01/26/2017 at 07:17, STARS: 0
If you actually want people to fit comfortably then you need to get a car that’s roughly the size of an a4. You basically just want that car but you cut it from the trunk back. Maybe check out the BMW 2 series.
"facw" (facw)
01/26/2017 at 07:25, STARS: 1
I think that may be bigger than an A4...
"Rico" (ricorich)
01/26/2017 at 07:26, STARS: 1
No such thing unless you’re adults are little people.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
01/26/2017 at 07:29, STARS: 1
As I implied in another comment, it depends on how big the people are. Seeing as the OP mentioned a Golf, I’m guessing that they’re small enough to fit in a Golf with enough comfort. (Although, looks like they’re German, so...)
That said, the typical way to improve passenger space without increasing length is to increase height and have more upright seating, which means small crossovers and small MPVs typically, a direction that tends to not offer much in terms of performance, and hurts handling.
"jariten1781" (jariten1781)
01/26/2017 at 07:55, STARS: 0
I mean, if you’re looking at a Golf then any of the competitors hatches will slot in the same (Focus, Civic, Cruze, and so on). If you’re looking for actual space in that same type of footprint you’ll want a compact MPV class of which we don’t get many in the US...C-Max, Rondo, Mazda 5, and Merc B-class (if you wanted to go electric) are the only recent ones off the top of my head.
"Birddog" (maintmgt)
01/26/2017 at 08:01, STARS: 2
"lutze" (lutze)
01/26/2017 at 08:05, STARS: 0
Does anyone know a good body shop in Southern Germany to cut the rear end off an A4? :-)
"Montalvo" (m5goesroundtheoutside)
01/26/2017 at 08:08, STARS: 0
Not third party but I do know it was a factory option.
"lutze" (lutze)
01/26/2017 at 08:20, STARS: 0
Yeah, I was hoping someone knew of a magic bullet, and we’re definitely not keen on the whole 2er Active Touring class :-/
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
01/26/2017 at 08:29, STARS: 1
seats 4 comfortably, behaves well at speed, easy to parkÉ
get 4 of these and call it a day
"lutze" (lutze)
01/26/2017 at 08:35, STARS: 0
My ‘99 Speed Triple seats 2 pretty comfortably but I’m kinda over driving it in the 10 degree weather ;-)
"lutze" (lutze)
01/26/2017 at 08:36, STARS: 1
I had a ‘95 318Ti for a few years. I really wish I still did, it was a diamond of a car. That’s actually a decent idea.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
01/26/2017 at 08:36, STARS: 0
Looks like OP is in Germany, but doesn’t want the compact MPV class anyway.
There’s also the Opel Ampera-e (Chevy Bolt), but it’s also another compact MPV (although Chevy calls it a crossover). Lower center of gravity, though, than most of them, and tbqh, more room.
"Chuckles" (chucklesw37)
01/26/2017 at 08:38, STARS: 2
Not a 2+2, but I wanted to mention that I sat in the backseat of a 2016 Honda Fit a few weeks ago, and it was shockingly roomy. I’m sure it’s easy to park and isn’t enormous in terms of exterior dimensions.
"lutze" (lutze)
01/26/2017 at 08:40, STARS: 0
In counterpoint, the VW CC for example is a 2+2 that is designed for 4, but it’s just bigger than the goal size I think. I’m not sure we could call a GT86's rear seats even “emergency” haha.
Target adult height is 6'. Which likely means just “get a bigger car damnit and figure it out” but I’m being stubborn.
"lutze" (lutze)
01/26/2017 at 08:41, STARS: 0
Relatively newish to new is ok, and I’d like to try and spend less than 30k unless it’s like the bee’s knees.
"lutze" (lutze)
01/26/2017 at 08:41, STARS: 0
Sold!
"lutze" (lutze)
01/26/2017 at 08:44, STARS: 0
I guess the reason the Golf is the top of its class is because it’s hard to beat without exactly the above ^: getting SUVisher / MPVisher.
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
01/26/2017 at 08:44, STARS: 0
wild card, what about a VW tiguan? its BASICLY a tall golf with AWD. base engine is the 2.0L in the GTI (here in canada anyways) will be comfier on the inside for passengers, AND you can put it on airbags if you need dat low life
"lutze" (lutze)
01/26/2017 at 08:48, STARS: 0
I’ve added a slammed Tiguan to the list :)
"lutze" (lutze)
01/26/2017 at 08:49, STARS: 0
I rented a Yaris back in November on a vacation and it was similarly roomy — I’d like something with a longer wheelbase to make it a little less fidgety on the highways, but they’d be a solid choice you’re right.
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
01/26/2017 at 08:49, STARS: 1
unce unce unce unce unce unce unce
also, w/e the Audi based of this is...the Q5?
"Master Cylinder" (mastercylinder28)
01/26/2017 at 08:53, STARS: 0
Is an ATS too big? I test drove a few when I was shopping for cars last year and was pretty impressed. Low-mileage used examples are easily found in the low 20s and you can even get it in RWD 6MT flavor if you manage to find one.
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
01/26/2017 at 09:10, STARS: 0
Audi S5?
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
01/26/2017 at 09:25, STARS: 0
Q3 is the Audi Tiguan.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
01/26/2017 at 09:28, STARS: 0
Yaris is quite a bit smaller than the Fit, though, as far as roominess goes. And, it’s almost an inch shorter wheelbase. (Edit: Of course, wheelbase isn’t the only thing that helps on freeways. Caster angle helps a lot too, and the Japanese usually don’t put as much in as the Germans do. Mazda, though, puts a fair bit in.)
That said, if a Golf works, you can go longer than the Fit... but that really pushes you right back into the compact MPVs or crossovers.
Out of curiosity, what are your performance and efficiency goals?
"Tazio, Count Fouroff" (tazio0625)
01/26/2017 at 09:32, STARS: 0
"lutze" (lutze)
01/26/2017 at 09:52, STARS: 0
Does anyone have a good opinion of the Mini Cooper 5-door? The normal 5-door, not the Clubman.
"lutze" (lutze)
01/26/2017 at 10:05, STARS: 0
I think it’d be a good size, or just about on the cusp. I didn’t mention in the original post that I’m in Germany and they’re a little tough to find on the pre-owned market. But at 460 cm or there about it fits the list — I’ll have a look, thanks!
"lutze" (lutze)
01/26/2017 at 10:07, STARS: 0
I thought they were squarely on the A4 platform but it looks like they come in around 465cm — that’s on the cusp but might work actually. I’ll give it a look, thanks!
"lutze" (lutze)
01/26/2017 at 10:10, STARS: 0
I’d like it to have more go than the standard 110hp econo tax machines here. If I buy a Golf it’ll likely be a GTI, because yeah.
A yaris / fit is likely smaller than I’m looking for I think but we might have a go at them; the goal is 4 adults and space for some stuff and the Golfs have seemed to be about as small as that comes.
"lutze" (lutze)
01/26/2017 at 10:12, STARS: 1
I love them and drove a m135i. Honestly I was underwhelmed after the e36 and e46 I had years ago. I thought all the C/D reviewers talking about drive-by-wire feeling like a video game was silliness but, the car just had too much power for almost anything and the steering felt like sitting in a Need for Speed arcade booth.
We might go back and try a lower-output model just for a go because they’re really quite nice interiors, but the Golf competes here and space is better managed.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
01/26/2017 at 10:35, STARS: 0
Maybe a Mini Countryman Cooper S? It’s basically a BMW 225i/225xi AT, but very differently styled. (Or, for the PHEV version, a 225xe AT.)
"lutze" (lutze)
01/26/2017 at 10:42, STARS: 0
I think we’re going to add what the German site calls a Mini Cooper 5-door to the list. Actually maybe the Mini Cooper S 5-door, just because 190 hp is better than 135...
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
01/26/2017 at 10:47, STARS: 0
That would be what we in the US call a Clubman, I believe. I don’t know if it’ll do four six footers comfortably, although it’ll have some cargo space.
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
01/26/2017 at 10:57, STARS: 0
I think they are a very attractive car as well.
"Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle" (1500sand535)
01/26/2017 at 12:00, STARS: 0
Last year mini actually came out with a mini hardtop 4 door that’s smaller than the current clubman but probably similar in size to the old clubman. So it is a distinct model even here in the u.s. But if you weren’t too up on minis it probably wouldn’t be something you’d notice.
"Tazio, Count Fouroff" (tazio0625)
01/26/2017 at 12:14, STARS: 1
Totally understood about driving feel and brand-new versus recent past model BMW’s. Luckily, don’t need a new car atm but as a longtime Blau mit Weiß fanboi it would mean serious thought and tough choices if I did. Kinda like what you’re describing!
Golfs are good. Best wishes with the current car quest
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
01/26/2017 at 12:18, STARS: 2
So, let me get this right... it’s the big version of the small version of a big generation of a small car.
That’s not confusing at all.
"lutze" (lutze)
01/26/2017 at 12:21, STARS: 0
You’ve now upgraded to Mini Marketing Level 2
"lutze" (lutze)
01/26/2017 at 12:22, STARS: 0
I like that the reviews pretty much identify it as a “budget” GT — it’s unfortunately not the most dynamic or lux, but ticks all the boxes well enough that it should float to the top.
"lutze" (lutze)
01/26/2017 at 12:23, STARS: 0
Thanks! And yeah good luck when that time comes up...
"Tazio, Count Fouroff" (tazio0625)
01/26/2017 at 12:25, STARS: 0
PS: imo FWIW Road & Track had a pretty good writeup on the 2 Series (July, 2016) in case you might not have seen it and in case it might be of interest.
As your post mentions, they also liked the lowest-output model best (228i) (of course except for the crazy power / crazy price M2)
"lutze" (lutze)
01/26/2017 at 12:27, STARS: 0
The trick, apparently, is that the word “Cooper” has always been a trim classification.
So, there’s a Mini 3-door, Mini 5-door, Mini Clubman, and Mini Countryman. Those have a Cooper, Cooper S, John Cooper Works and other trims.
Or something like that
"Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle" (1500sand535)
01/26/2017 at 12:31, STARS: 0
you nailed it.
"lutze" (lutze)
01/26/2017 at 12:33, STARS: 0
Yeah, looking at the the Q2 is probably the only Q that fits the size needs comfortably, maybe a Q3? And I guess for performance / fun / space, that darn golf is tough to beat even with one of the Q’s
"Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle" (1500sand535)
01/26/2017 at 12:35, STARS: 0
That makes sense. Mini gets a bit of flak around here but I’ve always thought their cars looked good, and apparently they drive well.
"Mondial goes to 11" (mondialgoesto11)
01/26/2017 at 14:25, STARS: 1
A Ferrari Mondial has a slightly smaller overall length and wheelbase than an A4...
"Master Cylinder" (mastercylinder28)
01/26/2017 at 18:32, STARS: 0
Ah, yeah, being in Germany probably makes a significant difference. Here in the US (or at least in the Detroit area) they’re flooding the market. If you’ve got $25K to spend, you can have your pick of 2-3 year old used examples with less than 20-40 thousand miles.
"lutze" (lutze)
01/27/2017 at 07:24, STARS: 0
“But doesn’t want the MPV class”
I’m not ready to admit I’m an adult yet, as practical as one of those would be for space.
There’s some plug-in hybrids that are really sweet, but the electric-only gives me the heebie geebies still, what with not being able to plan for plug-in points at ski places, hostels/hotels, etc. when we’re traveling for a weekend. I wish we’d just get the infrastructure already! They’d be sweet.