by "Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
Published 01/22/2017 at 00:02
by "Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
Published 01/22/2017 at 00:02
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STARS: 2
I don’t own a miata hardtop and that is terrible. I don’t know anyone who has one. I don’t want to pay $1k for a used one. I want to make one out of aluminum.
Is it a bad idea to use a model car say a tamiya 1:24 model to scale up the hardtop and make a buck to produce my own?
I don’t know much about models and assume they just scale down a fullsize car.
"DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
01/22/2017 at 00:08, STARS: 5
I’m way more interested in how you’ll fabricate this.
"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
01/22/2017 at 00:09, STARS: 0
Wat.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/22/2017 at 00:10, STARS: 0
I think I explained it pretty well.
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
01/22/2017 at 00:13, STARS: 0
I like this idea. No clue if they scale perfectly but if so... Go for it. Put me down for a red one.
"daender" (daender)
01/22/2017 at 00:15, STARS: 3
A very nobel idea, but a bad idea. Finding the mounting locations and nailing the overal design to accept OEM parts are going to your greatest challenges.
That said, it’s still better than those shitty-made Tyrant hardtops.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/22/2017 at 00:15, STARS: 1
I figure it would be easier to just copy a real car to make the model from than trying to make an improvised scale version of one and make all the proportions correct. Worst case is I have to modify the buck I end up building. At least I would have a 3d reference as to what looks right.
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
01/22/2017 at 00:22, STARS: 1
by the time you get materials, make a mold, mess it up, get more material, paint, etc etc etc etc.
really, its just easier to get a used one.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/22/2017 at 00:22, STARS: 0
I dont think getting the mounting points would be that hard I would use the model hardtop to build a buck that I would put on the full scale car to reference the mounting points. I think the mounting points would be the first things to fabricate.
kinda like this.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/22/2017 at 00:25, STARS: 0
not making a mold. maybe easier for someone who doesn’t have the fabrication skills I do. I may not be a pro but I have experience making things from a buck and a pattern and forming compound panels with metal.
"NJAnon" (NJAnon)
01/22/2017 at 00:25, STARS: 0
I think it would be easier going to find the actual cars hardtop somewhere and getting the dimensions that way you avoid having to do the math to try to scale up a model car.
(I too was confused by the topic title. You gotta a little overzealous typing that Frank! 8D)
"Alfalfa" (alfalfa-romeo)
01/22/2017 at 00:26, STARS: 0
Pretty sure I know a guy in SLC area with an NA hardtop you could use to make it a little more accurate. Check out some local Miata owner groups if you’re on FB.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
01/22/2017 at 00:28, STARS: 1
The Tyrant fab saga is still one of the best things I’ve witnessed in Miatadom.
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
01/22/2017 at 00:28, STARS: 1
again, by the time you fettle it to fit and make catches and so one and so forth...
really not worth it unless its for the l;earning experience.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/22/2017 at 00:30, STARS: 0
in making a buck you just need references at certain intervals. I would just imput the lines at each stage of the buck into cad program and scale it up.
so like each of the vertical parts of this wooden buck is a stage and each of them would be equally spaced I only need the contours of each stage and connect the dots so to speak with smooth contours made in the metal.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/22/2017 at 00:32, STARS: 0
I would use the stock latches and stock mounting points. also noone makes an aluminum one and I am not paying $1k or more for a OEM one even if I had the money.
"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
01/22/2017 at 00:32, STARS: 2
Okay I think I get it now.
I like the idea but it probably wouldn’t be the best way to go about doing it. If you care about making your own bucks, I’d just use a real part as a reference. There wouldn’t be enough details on a little Tamiya model.
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
01/22/2017 at 00:33, STARS: 1
Unless you already have extensive experience with carpentry and metal fabrication this is an exceptionally bad idea. Fiberglass is easier, but at the end of the day you’ll probably spend way more and get a worse final result than just buying a professionally made top.
"S65" (granthp)
01/22/2017 at 00:33, STARS: 0
Ooo tell me more
"RandomTask" (Random_Task)
01/22/2017 at 00:37, STARS: 1
Needs more fastback
"daender" (daender)
01/22/2017 at 00:37, STARS: 0
Here’s the Club Roadster tread, enjoy. http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/20-exterior/218105-tyrant-fabrication-hardtop.html
"MM54" (mm54mk2)
01/22/2017 at 00:38, STARS: 1
I’m going to go with “Yes”
I’d suggest finding someone who will loan you an actual hard top to get measurements, finding a nasty one on ebay to resell later, or similar. This would be especially helpful with all the little stuff like the window, hardware, etc.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/22/2017 at 00:38, STARS: 0
wood and aluminum is cheap. I already have a tig welder sheet metal brake all the clamps hammers shot bags planishing hammers etc I would need.
there is no extensive wood skills required. fiberglass is not easier fiberglass requires a mold. A mold from a hardtop I do not have.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/22/2017 at 00:39, STARS: 0
yeah I am sorta leaning that if I am going to the effort of fabricating a top that it should be totally custom instead of just trying to replicate an OEM one in aluminum.
"daender" (daender)
01/22/2017 at 00:39, STARS: 1
It’s a shame it was a shitty scam like those Supercar Replicas or the Dale, I actually liked their conceptual design of a double-bubble Miata hardtop that would better accommodate helmets and/or people with taller torsos.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/22/2017 at 00:40, STARS: 0
yeah but if its a scale version of a full size car why would it be a bad idea?
"MM54" (mm54mk2)
01/22/2017 at 00:42, STARS: 1
By the time you take the measurements, scale it down, cut the molds, injectioon mold the part, get it to you, and you measure it, you’ll be losing some detail there.
Also all the details, like the window, latches, etc.
"RandomTask" (Random_Task)
01/22/2017 at 00:44, STARS: 1
The fast back just looks better than the bubble top too. Flows better with the lines of the rear. I never liked the way the bubble top just kind of drops to meet the deck lid. The sport back is my favorite though, I think this was a One Off though, as I’ve never seen one in person.
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
01/22/2017 at 00:46, STARS: 0
Yes, but creating the internal bracing, window openings and seals would be much more complex. The rear window itself would be an issue too. Fiberglass does not require a mold, and it can easily be built over a buck:
It’s still a bad idea.
"daender" (daender)
01/22/2017 at 00:48, STARS: 2
It’s a JDM-only NB2 Miata, Mazda only produced it in small numbers.
http://oppositelock.kinja.com/mazda-sold-a-miata-coupe-we-just-didnt-know-about-it-1618120073
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
01/22/2017 at 00:53, STARS: 1
you asked if it was a bad idea or not.
and I told you: yea, its a really bad idea
if you were looking for affirmation or advice on how to do it, you should have posted that.
EDIT: and you can get a NEW hard top for 800$
https://www.carbonmiata.com/shop/mazda-mx-5/hardtop/
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
01/22/2017 at 00:54, STARS: 0
Funny story: I got banned from CR for a month.
"RandomTask" (Random_Task)
01/22/2017 at 01:01, STARS: 0
Damn, that explains a lot. Much appreciated!
"OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars" (jakeauern)
01/22/2017 at 01:07, STARS: 1
I would just save up for a few months and buy a new top from canton Miata. That way the likelihood of anything going wrong is less and if anything goes wrong you can blame it on them and not yourself. It’s just a simpler solution. Anything else and I would say go for it but that it a super complicated part and if anything leaks you are in more then $800 worth of trouble.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/22/2017 at 01:12, STARS: 0
not really. the buck would be reference for all those things. the problem for me is not building things out of aluminum.
you say its a bad idea but its the way cars were made since the beginning and how many cars are restored or created from scratch today.
the only problem I have is if a scale model is in fact a scale version or an improvised facsimile.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/22/2017 at 01:14, STARS: 0
what is canton miata? they make a new hardtop?
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
01/22/2017 at 01:15, STARS: 0
As Peter pointed out, you’re here for affirmation not for our opinions. There’s an awful lot of us telling you that this is a bad idea, but you don’t want to hear it.
I wish you the best and hope it works out, but I don’t expect that it will.
"OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars" (jakeauern)
01/22/2017 at 01:16, STARS: 0
Carbon Miata. It’s late and I’ve had a few drinks.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/22/2017 at 01:17, STARS: 0
800 + 700 shipping.
It just sounds like you dont know what you are talking about because your objections make no sense and sound like you dont really understand the process of making things from metal.
I dont know how to be more clear I think this question I posted makes it obvious what I was asking
“Is it a bad idea to use a model car say a tamiya 1:24 model to scale up the hardtop and make a buck to produce my own?”
I wasn’t asking if you think I can do it or you would do it but if using a scale model to produce a full size part is a bad idea.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/22/2017 at 01:19, STARS: 0
oh yeah I went down that route with them. They ship direct from china. for what it costs in shipping for a new top from them could nearly pay for an OEM used one. I guess my reasoning is more I dont want to spend half of the worth of a NA miata to buy a OEM top and I know how to make metal things and think an aluminum top would be cool so why not?
"OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars" (jakeauern)
01/22/2017 at 01:24, STARS: 1
Yeah I just know every time I try to do something that I think is out of my league I end up regretting it and spending the money to have rid ken right. My parents have customers much too often that try doing the work to their car themselves but then screw up something so bad it takes 50% more just to fix their mistake so you can fix the original problem. I’m all about people doing things themselves but a hardtop on a Miata is definitely not one of those things. The light in my radio on my Lexus need fixed but my dad is spending nearly 1/5 of the value of the car to get it fixed but we know that guy will do it right and that my Lexus is still a lot cheaper then a car payment
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/22/2017 at 01:33, STARS: 0
you never answered the questions.
such as this one
“is it a bad idea to use a model car say a tamiya 1:24 model to scale up the hardtop and make a buck to produce my own?”
you just offered opinions on making it a different way and post a video showing something different. just because I was asking questions and trying to tell you that your concerns dont really apply doesnt mean I just want people to tell me its a good idea. I want to know why its a bad idea and its seems like you just want to say its a bad idea but not really explain why using a model car to replicate a part isnt going to work.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/22/2017 at 01:36, STARS: 1
Well its not like I dont know how to weld or form aluminum and and starting with zero tools. I have made bucks and made parts off them.
I just wonder how accurate model cars are.
"Junkrat aka Rick Sanchez: Fury Road Edition" (realasabass)
01/22/2017 at 02:30, STARS: 1
Tamiya kits are pretty accurate. At least they were and had been for the 30 years prior. Their military kits are highly praised. If any kit is going to be accurate it is probably the Tamiya. Good luck, I like the idea of the “tintop” Miata.
"daender" (daender)
01/22/2017 at 10:02, STARS: 0
You know, I just thought of this. Do you happen to know anyone locally with a hardtop that’s willing to lend it for a few months? I did that for a local bodyshop who needed a hardtop as a template for his LeMons Miata’s custom roof.
It ended up becoming this:
In return I got my hardtop repaired and painted black instead of metallic green. One of my friends in Greenville has a hardtop mainly for track days so it just sits in his garage 99% of the time; you need to find that sort of person who has a hardtop but never uses it.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
01/22/2017 at 14:59, STARS: 0
The problem here is that by the time you factor in all the margins for error you’re better off just making the bucks without any reference. The model manufacturer took the full sized part, whether a drawing or facsimile and then shrunk it down, probably imperfectly, introducing a margin of error. Then it was injection molded imperfectly, introducing another margin of error. Then you have to take that tiny part and scale it up 10x in the process also multiplying the margins of error and resulting in a shape ill-suited to making any kind of buck or mold. Better to get your latches, make the shapes around the windows, and then make the buck from there in whatever shape you want rather than trying to imitate something that’s a lost cause from the beginning.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/22/2017 at 15:29, STARS: 1
Thanks for the reply!
I was thinking about this in the shower this morning actually! I was also thinking that I would have to measure such a small part with such accuracy that dimensions from one section of the part to another would have to have the same margin of error or it would be pretty far off actual dimensions.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/22/2017 at 15:32, STARS: 0
yeah I don’t know anyone at the moment but might be able to do some searching. I just figured it would be a big favor to ask of someone I don’t even know. Also I kinda like the idea of having an aluminum top and possibly leaving it bare.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/22/2017 at 15:34, STARS: 0
I know its kind of a crazy idea but I cant be the first to think of it. I don’t know if I just made it up but I remember somewhere reading about a guy who did something similar to this. At this point I think I might just pick up a model and start measuring it just for fun to see how it would turn out.
"daender" (daender)
01/22/2017 at 15:48, STARS: 0
Totally go with the aluminum top idea, that would be pretty sweet. Still, if you can even find a broken hardtop, then that’s probably enough to allow you to build a pretty accurate buck off of it to help you pound out an aluminum one.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/22/2017 at 17:43, STARS: 1
I think I even emailed a company that makes a race version top and asked if they could send me a destroyed one or cut one up to save on shipping and never got a reply.
"daender" (daender)
01/22/2017 at 17:56, STARS: 0
I suggest placing a WTB post on the Miata.net forum, hopefully someone could have one laying around post-rollover.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
01/22/2017 at 18:22, STARS: 0
Honestly I’d just cut a sillouette of a fastback style and start making ribs from there. Aluminum or fiberglass as you fancy. The hard part will be making it latch on securely and seal around the windows and such.
"NJAnon" (NJAnon)
01/22/2017 at 19:04, STARS: 0
I don’t know what a buck is (manufacturing isn’t my area of knowledge) thanks for the update. The Buck I know is money reference.
I think that other poster was probably glad you put an explainer.
"gawdzillla" (gawdzillla)
01/22/2017 at 20:33, STARS: 0
why dont u buy one of these http://treasurecoastmiata.com/i-11670564-new-light-weight-miata-race-hard-top-fits-90-05.html
"gawdzillla" (gawdzillla)
01/22/2017 at 20:35, STARS: 0
if i was going through all that trouble mine would look more like this one
http://rev9autosport.com/garage-vary-na-hardtop-fastback.html
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/22/2017 at 23:54, STARS: 0
shipping is like $800
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/22/2017 at 23:58, STARS: 0
yeah. I figured I would make channels for rubber seals first using windows and body as reference. I think I might go the route you suggested. having a nice line from windshield header to the trunk area and then work from there. I wish it wasnt snowing all the time I could start getting an idea started.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/22/2017 at 23:58, STARS: 0
that is a good idea. I dont know why I didnt think of it!
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
01/23/2017 at 00:03, STARS: 0
I forget, do you have an NB or NA? NBs look the absolute sex with fastbacks.
"Ilike_cougars" (rohitvenkat01)
01/23/2017 at 15:34, STARS: 0
Lol Miata Summer..
"daender" (daender)
01/23/2017 at 19:43, STARS: 1
I can’t recall the exact name but I think the team name was “Miatte Bummer”.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/23/2017 at 20:54, STARS: 0
its an NA
"Ilike_cougars" (rohitvenkat01)
01/24/2017 at 12:32, STARS: 0
Ha Ha.. thats clever..
"Roadster Man" (roadsterman)
01/27/2017 at 16:31, STARS: 0
Also, you can try to find one without glass. Some guys are selling hard tops without the glass for super cheap, since the glass will run you like $500.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/27/2017 at 16:32, STARS: 0
I need to find these people. seriously none of my few friends are into cars or miata.