by "Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment" (evanmcm)
Published 01/18/2017 at 01:03
by "Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment" (evanmcm)
Published 01/18/2017 at 01:03
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STARS: 5
I’ve stated this in various ways and at various times in various comments on the FP over the years. But since they have basically banned me (again) f0r not falling in with the crowd, I feel like it would be useful to post this here to see what people think. Of course, I also happen to think I’m right.
It’s become almost a knee-jerk, compulsive response by most on this site to whine about the weight of basically every new car that isn’t an Alfa 4C, and furthermore to go on long, unhinged diatribes about how cars are too heavy now, too fat, can’t possibly be any fun to drive, and probably had sex with someone’s mother last night to boot. It’s really getting to be almost a religion around here, and in the so-called “enthusiast” circles online.
They’re all wrong. Let me tell you why.
Modern cars (modern meaning, say, the last 5-15 years, especially since CAD became a huge factor in design) are simply not comparable chassis-wise to what was being built for decades and decades before computers came along to make everything more better. Neither are tires, or suspension, or really any component of the modern car. All thanks to our good friend silicon. Computational modeling and design has allowed for nearly unbelieveable advances in chassis design, suspension design, tire design, and car design in general over just a very short period of time. This is absolutely beyond discussion or debate, it’s simply a fact.
So, what does that mean? It means that the modern car is much, much stiffer than anything, even “hypercars” from about 20-30 years ago. It means modern suspension is so good, it can both give you a comfortable ride and also provide the reaction and damping/resistance necessary to endow even the cheapest cars with reasonably good handling. It means tires are quiet, long-lasting, grippy, predictable, and comfortable. It means that more than ever, the average car chassis is truly a great place to start for building an enjoyable driver’s car.
What it also means is that the old, ever-present enemy of weight is far less a concern than it was before. Back when cars had tiny, awful drum brakes, terrible, skinny tires that had no grip, suspensions akin to ox carts and chassis that had less structural integrity than a cardboard box, weight was crucial. Every pound was another pound the already-tapped-out chassis couldn’t afford to deal with. Of course weight was terrifying then - most cars literally couldn’t handle any more of it. The ability of the car to mitigate the effects of weight were very, very limited.
Now, however, this isn’t the case. Modern cars are balanced, stiff as a rock, have tons of grip, genius suspension, fast steering, and excellent brakes. Weight is simply not the issue it used to be. And, lest we forget, there were plenty of heavy cars built in the “glory days” of “cheap and light” decades ago. It seems many have chosen to forget this. By the way, think back to how poorly a 4,000 pound car from the 70's or even the 80's handles. Scary to think about. Now, that’s a fairly common number for a larger sedan to hit, and it’s safe to say that pretty much all of them would embarrass all but the very fastest cars in the world from just a few decades ago.
Case in point - I’m privileged to own 2 BMW 5 Series sedans that are almost exactly 30 years apart. One is a 1988 E28 535i, almost all options, manual gearbox. It’s an extremely cheap-feeling car by modern standards, but in its time it was one of the finest cars money could buy. The other car I own is a 2008 E60 M5. Most options, SMG gearbox. It’s a Brinks Truck compared to the E28, although certainly a lot lighter (and less substantial-feeling) than the several S-Class AMGs I considered buying before I purchased the M5. Everything is relative, after all.
Both cars are fun in a way the other could never be. The E28 truly feels ancient, and is fun in a sort of “so bad it’s good” type of way (although in some ways it is just very good). The sound of the (somewhat low-revving) I6 as it soars towards redline, the weird notchy-yet-indeterminate gearbox, the heavy clutch, the barely-adequate brakes, the super-slow, super-numb, super-heavy steering. It is not a car that necessarily handles well in stock form. It has massive tire sidewalls, on tires that are fairly skinny. The brakes are decent, but don’t like repeated high-speed stops. It’s extremely nose-heavy. The brakes and clutch have adequate feel, but the steering is pretty damn numb. The massive steering wheel means it’s almost comical to heave this thing around tight country roads sometimes. But god knows I’ve done it, and have many, many hours pushing this car to the limit on all kinds of road surfaces. It’s not too fast, but fast enough to make the chassis feel overwhelmed in various situations. It’s fun, but imprecise, sloppy, and not very capable. I’d hesitate to say it’s more raw, as the steering and brakes are certainly boosted and I’ve driven modern cars with much more feel. The thing you notice most is the utter lack of sound deadening and creature comforts as compared to any somewhat modern car. You arne’t insulated from the machine very much, certainly hardly at all compared to a modern 5 Series. Not in terms of the controls, but in terms of what you see, hear, and feel as it goes down the road. Sometimes it’s fun, but when it’s the only car you own, it becomes rather loathsome in the modern era.
The M5 could not possibly be more different. It weighs about 800-900 pounds more. Yet it’s perfectly balanced. The brakes, which many think are underpowered, are insanely powerful compared to most cars. The gearbox is precise, violent, immediate, and unforgiving. The engine feels like it’s wired to your brain, the suspension is adjustable from “Wow this is almost comfortable!” to “Wow this is only useful on Paul Ricard!” - yet it’s insulated, luxurious, technologically advanced. The steering has lots of feel, given the fact that the tires are wide and it’s carrying a 5 liter DOHC V10 between the front wheels. It is confidence-inspiring in a way few cars could ever be. It’s not easy to drive at first, but once you learn how to use it, it flows like water from corner to corner. It becomes easy to drift around nearly any corner, and never feels as if it’s about to go bounding off the road because the chassis simply can’t handle what you’re doing. Instead, it feels as if it demands more than you have to offer, potentially. It feels far more driver-oriented than the “light-weight”, “pure” and “raw” E28. I’m sure an E28 M5 would feel solidly more performance oriented, but still suffers from many of the same innherient shortcomings.
In the end, I enjoy both cars for what they are. I certainly enjoy my “heavy” 4000 pound M5 more than any other car I’ve driven, except for a 5000 pound S65 I considered buying as well. My point is this - modern cars aren’t too heavy, although perhaps some are too insulated. But that’s just how it is now. That’s what 97.6% of people want. And to be honest, sometimes that’s what I want. Even its most docile of configurations, the M5 is exceedingly aggressive and raw. You cannot really drive slowly in it, or relax yourself. To relax is to drive it as intended. Driving it slowly is frustrating. The S65 was perfectly happy to be driven sanely, only just. The E28...what can I say. Compared to a modern car, it’s miserable all the time. But, there are moments when it puts a smile on your face in a way that no other car could. The rest of the time I wish the damn HVAC worked.
Realized this - modern cars will continue to get more insulated, and there’s no way around it. Appreciate every car for what it is, and understand that perhaps we have sort of reached the point of peak driver involvement. There’s plenty of cars with massive driver involvement to be had that were built in the last decade, to pretend otherwise is silly. But for god’s sake, stop blaming the weight. It’s got nothing to do with it. Many of the best cars I’ve driven have been over 4k pounds. All else being equal, less weight is better, of course. I’m not saying it isn’t. But comparing a 3000 pound “sports car” from the 70s to a 4000 pound sports sedan from 2008 is silly and counterproductive. My M5 is one of the least ponderous cars I’ve ever driven. My E28 (and various other lighter cars) are some of the most. Let’s all try to be a bit more reasonable when it comes to the ever-present weight issue. It’s not as bad as you think.
"Berang" (berang)
01/18/2017 at 01:16, STARS: 4
The more obvious thing is that cars of the same size aren’t really that much heavier now than they were 20 years ago. It’s all sort of an imagined problem.
"citizennick" (citizennick)
01/18/2017 at 01:31, STARS: 1
Agreed. Countless times I’ve seen this argument in Camaro groups. They blindly assume their 4th gen is lighter than the new ones when in reality they’re nearly identical.
"Decay buys too many beaters" (decay)
01/18/2017 at 01:36, STARS: 3
I can see it for a daily, but for enjoyment, my personal preference based on my current garage is, lighter is always better. My 540i/6 (4000lbs) is pretty enjoyable to drive, my FR-S (2580lbs last I checked mine) is more so, My NA (little under 2000lbs) is more so still. If I’m going for a comfortable cruise, I’ll take the bimmer. For anything approaching aggressive/spirited driving It’s going to be one of the other two based on setting and desired pace (that’s a lie, I usually end up taking one of the motorcycles, the cars are becoming more and more track focused). I came real close to buying a new mustang GT recently, but couldn’t get over how heavy it felt on rotation (I actually took similar issue with an E60 M5 I test drove a while back, but I was looking for a sport car at the time, not a super sedan). They’ve made huge strides in all the areas you mentioned, but you cannot beat physics.
Dammit, I want a 3100lb mustang with a coyote and a decent interior :/
"DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
01/18/2017 at 01:42, STARS: 2
Wait. You got banned for defending modern cars weight? WTF? I though they just did it to people who where assholes.
"Decay buys too many beaters" (decay)
01/18/2017 at 01:43, STARS: 1
Are they? All documentation seems to indicate the current camaro is 3-400 lbs more
"citizennick" (citizennick)
01/18/2017 at 01:46, STARS: 1
Z28/SS models typically weighed in at around 3500.
"Decay buys too many beaters" (decay)
01/18/2017 at 01:50, STARS: 0
Did not know, wow. Where’d they hide it all!?!
edit, just checked, did not realize the 4th gen was so big either. They’re the same size!
"citizennick" (citizennick)
01/18/2017 at 01:55, STARS: 1
It is somewhat of an optical illusion. The 4th gen definitely had a very sleek look to it to appear small.
"slipperysallylikespenguins" (slipperysally)
01/18/2017 at 02:21, STARS: 4
If you read through his discussions they are almost entirely argumentive and not inline with the golden rule most adhere to on OPPO. I’m assuming that is the reasoning.
"Land_Yacht_225" (nadenator)
01/18/2017 at 02:21, STARS: 6
Vaguely related
"Bytemite" (bytemite)
01/18/2017 at 02:46, STARS: 5
Well, look at it from their point of view. They are seeing their buying options and possible next cars dying off. For their tastes, nothing new is coming out that excites them and makes them fall in love with the new released car. For others, they all get exactly what they want, more insulation, more tech, less involvement, with more meaningless performance numbers that the driver can’t even feel, while these “whiners” get nothing.
I don’t think you can argue with physics. People whine about weight because as you said, all else being equal, less is better. If you take the modern tech laden, stiffer caged car and made it lighter, it would be even better.
For me, there has always been one thing that determined the car’s fun factor, plain and simple physics. Forget RWD, V8s, turbos, LSDs, lateral G, HP...no just make it light, low center of gravity, decent weight distribution, and simple. That has always been the magic formula and it always will be. No one is making that formula anymore and even when they do (GT86) some of the american enthusiasts cry that it isn’t yet another tech laden, insulated, high horsepower dick measuring stick on wheels.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
01/18/2017 at 06:16, STARS: 0
Anyone else think Evan and Wobbles are two different personalities of the same individual?
"random001" (random001)
01/18/2017 at 06:35, STARS: 0
....
........
.....well, not until now....
"CalzoneGolem" (calzonegolem)
01/18/2017 at 06:44, STARS: 4
But since they have basically banned me (again) f0r not falling in with the crowd
"CalzoneGolem" (calzonegolem)
01/18/2017 at 06:50, STARS: 1
I guessed this after reading the first paragraph. Thanks for doing the research for me haha.
"random001" (random001)
01/18/2017 at 06:51, STARS: 0
The thing is not so much that weight can’t be managed, like you’ve stated, but that more weight makes all those other things harder to manage. So yes, modern, heavier cars are a blast to drive, but a lot of times they are living closer to the edge of their capabilities to manage the physics of their weight than a lighter version would be. For instance, drive a non-M 5 series of the same year as yours in the same manner as you drive your M5, weight being about the same, and you would have a very different experience because more money was spent on the M to manage the effects of the weight.
"nerd_racing" (nerd189)
01/18/2017 at 07:16, STARS: 1
TL DR Lost me at more better.
Drive something modern AND lightweight and you will see why everyone is obsessed with lighter is better.
"Tekamul" (tekamulburner)
01/18/2017 at 08:05, STARS: 1
Inertia is the enemy of every task trying to be completed by a car. Acceleration, handling, efficiency, braking, safety.
There’s a lot of useless mass in a car that’s there for looks, or to get that fifth star on a safety rating. 20" wheels are nothing but show pieces, weighing down a car, and necessitating bigger suspension pieces. Why does a Camaro have 8 airbags?
"fourvalleys" (fourvalleys)
01/18/2017 at 08:27, STARS: 1
I’m on sort of the opposite end of the spectrum (luxury sedan vs Mini), but it still rings true.
My Mini is a terrible car. If I had to drive it every day, I would go nuts. Sure, it’s light and tossable - but there’s no room, it’s unsafe, it’s slow, it’s unreliable, and it feels like a tin can. Of course, I enjoy it - because I’m an enthusiast. I like the style and the fact that it’s light and tossable... but as a commuter? There’s no comparison to anything sold today.
The new MINI is sort of the same comparison you’ve made. It’s a much better car if you actually want to live with it day to day. It’s solid, more reliable (hah, barely), and far more insulated. And by god is it a lot stiffer.
I get why people like the old stuff. A lot of it is nostalgia, sure. It can be a much more raw experience, definitely. But it becomes a problem when you consider who was buying a Mini in the 60s vs who’s buying a MINI today. It’s a similar market, sure - but it’s mostly people who care more about safety and quality, and not enthusiasts who are willing to make those sacrifices.
"StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8" (stndibnz1)
01/18/2017 at 08:28, STARS: 1
I’ll agree with you to a point. There is no reason a Challenger should weigh 4400lbs....... Don’t get me wrong, its a great car, fun to drive, SRT8 has plenty of power and handles nicely. BUT, it should be 3800 max. Hell, my Magnum is only 4200 and thats a long roof!
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
01/18/2017 at 08:37, STARS: 0
I think the important point to consider is how much older are you comparing these modern cars to? Sure anything from the 70s/80s that just happens to be lighter is going to get blown out of the water by anything in this decade, even if it is heavier. But mid-late 90's and 00's are just old enough to avoid the “modern bloat” while being new enough to incorporate CAD modeling and modern tire technology. The problem with newer cars being heavier is definitely a real issue. Its not about the numbers, it’s how the car feels. Sure 0-60 and fuel economy and even raw track times can be significantly better in the newer cars, but just weight alone is enough to ruin the driving “feel”. Obviously that is subjective so its hard to substantiate that claim. But that is why I think that weight is such a major issue.
"Tazio, Count Fouroff" (tazio0625)
01/18/2017 at 09:19, STARS: 0
It seems long ago now that designer Gordon Murray gave us an op-ed piece analyzing, in his view, the BMW Z8 and the Bugatti Veyron. Boy, did that make the scales fall from my disillusioned, devastated Bimmer fanboii eyes.
His point was that designers get lazy, complacent, and sloppy by allowing tech, engine power, brakes, and modern tires to take the place of ingenious design parsimony when it comes to weight.
imo you are correct 100% about CAD-CAM advancing vehicle design almost incomprehendably. I agree and submit that the same cars would be astoundingly even better if being as lightweight as possibly achievable were the absolute necessity it once — as you point out — was.
"Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment" (evanmcm)
01/18/2017 at 10:08, STARS: 1
Here’s the thing - cars aren’t that much heavier than they used to be, and they’re getting lighter again. It’s all well and good for Gordon Murray to say that, seeing as the McLaren F1 was the most expensive car in the world. But for a car with the safety, luxury, and user experience that most expect (and the gov’t demands) - there will be weight penalties. But again, short-lived. We’re trending down in weight, and advances in composites and construction will continue to make that happen.
"Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment" (evanmcm)
01/18/2017 at 10:10, STARS: 1
Well, again, what do you mean by driving feel? Here’s the dirty secret - most cars ever made, in any decade, don’t have much “driving feel” - there are some special ones every year that do, but these are in the vast minority. My E60 has far more “connection” and “feel” than my E28. It’s just more refined, which I think to many is somehow mistaken as “lack of feel”
"Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment" (evanmcm)
01/18/2017 at 10:12, STARS: 0
Well, yeah. There are some cars that are just poorly designed. And it’s born out in the way that thing handles - a Hellcat will get stomped around a road course by a 5.0 Mustang because it is literally too flexible and fat to make use of its power. Weight can still be a problem, it’s just easier to get around it now. However some companies seemingly still have trouble...
"Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment" (evanmcm)
01/18/2017 at 10:14, STARS: 1
Perfect example. I just drove a highly modified 04 Cooper S the other day. Literally felt like a go-kart. If you complain about that, you’re just being a contrarian and have nothing of value to say. I’ve been in an original mini too - yes, it’s fun. It would also be hateful to drive that every single day for years.
"Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment" (evanmcm)
01/18/2017 at 10:15, STARS: 0
I assume so. I think they got tired of me pointing out the idiocy in some of the posts. And for not falling in with the political group-think they’re trying to foster in the comments. Rather childish.
"Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment" (evanmcm)
01/18/2017 at 10:16, STARS: 0
If you have a specific dispute with me you’re more than welcome to address me directly instead of commenting about it to someone else....
"Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment" (evanmcm)
01/18/2017 at 10:20, STARS: 1
I get what you’re saying for sure. The average modern car is very sanitized, and I suppose that’s what people are railing against. But I think weight has little to do with it. It’s more due to what people expect in a car these days, and what’s possible. As far as I can tell, there are still lots of great options for enthusiasts, across the spectrum. The fact that they’re aren’t priced like a 20 year old hatchback seems to be another gripe many have.
"Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment" (evanmcm)
01/18/2017 at 10:20, STARS: 0
I don’t even know who that is if I’m honest...
"Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment" (evanmcm)
01/18/2017 at 10:22, STARS: 1
I hear you. I think overall there’s a balance to be had for sure, but maybe for me it’s biased less towards weight and more towards other factors, not sure. I’ll say this - I’ve driven some terrible lightweight cars, and I’ve driven a fully-loaded S63 that did a great impression of a super-sized M3. I suppose it’s all relative. Sporty cars will always be more...sporty :)
"Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment" (evanmcm)
01/18/2017 at 10:23, STARS: 1
You’re free to not read what I post, not sure if you’re aware. I really don’t care all that much, I was hoping some might find it humorous. I guess I was wrong...oh well.
"Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment" (evanmcm)
01/18/2017 at 10:24, STARS: 0
This is somewhat true, but I’ve driven an E60 528i and it was still far more controlled and direct than the E28, still lots of fun.
"Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment" (evanmcm)
01/18/2017 at 10:24, STARS: 1
This is also extremely true. They really aren’t. It’s kind of a made up issue to start with.
"Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment" (evanmcm)
01/18/2017 at 10:25, STARS: 0
We all know how inertia works. Point being that it certainly can be handled better and worse. Are you saying you’d prefer if cars were less safe? I doubt you’d feel the weight difference. In fact I know you wouldn’t. But you’d sure feel those missing airbags in a crash...
"Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment" (evanmcm)
01/18/2017 at 10:26, STARS: 0
Tongue-in-cheek.
Read my piece and maybe come back.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
01/18/2017 at 10:28, STARS: 1
Exactly...
"CalzoneGolem" (calzonegolem)
01/18/2017 at 10:29, STARS: 0
I’m free to read whatever you post and make any comments I want as well, not sure if you’re aware.
I don’t disagree with you but, that first paragraph is some of the saltiest shit I’ve ever read.
"nerd_racing" (nerd189)
01/18/2017 at 10:41, STARS: 0
I did read it.
"Decay buys too many beaters" (decay)
01/18/2017 at 10:56, STARS: 1
And that’s also not to say I cannot enjoy heavy cars, I’m not one of those that instantly berates any new car that weighs more than a sheet of tissue paper. I’ve certainly had fun in most of the enthusiast leaning heavy cars I’ve driven (Except the Mopars), but after a week or so in one of them, getting back into my FR-S is a revelation. It’s got all that modern chassis stiffness and design, but comes in almost 3/4 tons lighter than most cars on the market. Now the Miata is a whole different mark, definitely feels old, sloppy, underbraked, underpowered, and lacking in most things necessary to make a modern car livable. But my god, it’s as close to that “man/machine as one” feeling I get on a bike as I expect is possible in a vehicle with 4 wheels.
"random001" (random001)
01/18/2017 at 11:05, STARS: 0
Oh, no doubt.
"Mercedes Streeter" (smart)
01/18/2017 at 11:10, STARS: 1
You will not be banned for disagreeing with the hivemind. I’ve been against the Jalopnik hivemind since 2012, and Jezebel’s since 2015, still an approved commenter on both platforms. Heck, when I star someone on Jalopnik they come out of the gray .
What’s more likely happening here is that your commenting style is clashing with users, and they’re flagging and dismissing your comments. Enough dismissals and flags, you get banned. That’s no insult to you, everyone has their own way of doing things. :) I don’t think the FP has real mods, just an algorithm.
If I could offer any advice that might get you back as an approved commenter on Jalopnik, it’s try not to open your comment by insulting the person you’re replying to...or don’t insult them at all. Show them why they’re wrong, cite some sources, then your information will be telling enough without any filler. It’s how I’ve been doing it for years without a single issue. :)
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
01/18/2017 at 11:44, STARS: 1
Very true, refinement can be a blessing and a curse. I am not really a fan of refinement. Being rough around the edges, difficult to drive, and loud/uncomfortable are positive traits most of the time. I dont really believe in the concept of a “daily driver” either, its fun always and thats the only thing that matters. But even so, I definitely get your point 100%. Not all advancements are “the devil”. There is actually some value from the enthusiast perspective on newer cars. I think the weight argument is more from non-enthusiast cars. In the 80s/90s even shitboxes were kinda fun to drive due to the light weight. Now you have to get in a Sports car otherwise it will be a numb coffin that sips gas and gets you from point A to point B. This is both a good and bad thing.
"StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8" (stndibnz1)
01/18/2017 at 12:05, STARS: 0
It’s def easier to get around it. Plus, cars a much safer than the tin cans everyone loves that weighed next to nothing.
"Bytemite" (bytemite)
01/18/2017 at 12:12, STARS: 1
Wait you mean I can’t trade in my EJ Civic for a brand new car!?
But I am disappointed in the options we have. Every time something exciting makes it out to concept, we get denied. Nissan IDx, Toyota SF-R, Kia GT4 Stinger, Mazda’s Miata losing only 100 kg instead of 200 kg. It sort of feels like you are a minority that has to conform to the majority because that’s all companies sell to. Some of us don’t give two ducks about 5 star crash safety. Give me 1 star on a new car if it means 200 lbs less weight. We don’t want 6 airbags, and driver nannies, and beltlines up to our neck, and A-pillars blocking half our view.
Clear to see that the insurance companies and their lobbyists are the only ones winning from this deal. If they had it their way, we wouldn’t even have a damn steering wheel.
So the cycle continues, automakers slap on a turbo, or throw in a big engine into a porker sedan, give it even heavier, stiffer suspension and wheels to make it “handle”, and tell people look at what we did! Be excited! No we’re not excited. It takes much more guts and engineering genius to make a car lighter and funner, than the 10 minute hack job it takes to add horsepower and heavier duty suspension and stickier tires to handle all that weight.
"Bytemite" (bytemite)
01/18/2017 at 12:21, STARS: 1
Very true. I was just about to say, look at the econoboxes regular Joes got to drive back in the 90s. EG/EJ Civics, Integras, Celicas, DSMs. The same Versas, Corollas, and Civics of today...just are numbing pods on wheels.
I also don’t get this “for a daily driver, I want this absolutely vanilla, boring car” mentality some enthusiasts have. Just drive a fun car all the time, why not.
"Tekamul" (tekamulburner)
01/18/2017 at 18:56, STARS: 1
I am absolutely saying I’d like to skip the nearly 300 pounds the SRS system adds.
I’ve never checked a safety rating when car shopping, never will.
If you wanna make roads safer, tax every car a dollar per 50 pounds of weight, annually. Away go the frivolous 6000 pound mall-UVs, which are the real road threat.
"Nauraushaun" (nauraushaun12)
01/19/2017 at 03:16, STARS: 0
You’re right about comparing really old cars to new ones. Aside from the fact that they’re apples and oranges, in terms of ability there’s not much to compare.
But lighter is still better - you’re right about that too.
Owning those two M5s must be bliss. If you can get over the holes the F10 is poking in the E28. I’ve never owned a car newer than ‘94 and that’s the way I likes it!
"Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment" (evanmcm)
01/19/2017 at 12:07, STARS: 1
Well, I have, twice. So I don’t know what to tell you. I had to email Patrick George directly in order to get it undone the first time. I can’t be bothered to do that again. If it’s purely algo, then I guess it’s not that great of a system to start with. I try to be constructive in what I say, although I certainly will not hold back from critiquing the author if I disagree with what’s being written. Don’t get me wrong, plenty of great people comment on the FP. But they seem to now be in the minority, the last 18-24 months have basically seen the main site turn into a political soap box. And it’s rather sad.
"Mercedes Streeter" (smart)
01/19/2017 at 12:40, STARS: 0
If it’s purely algo, then I guess it’s not that great of a system to start with.
So true, I’m infinitely gray on Gizmodo no matter what I do, and it’s not like I argue with people either. Kinja is just broken.
...although I certainly will not hold back from critiquing the author if I disagree with what’s being written.
Please do!!! :) Unfortunately all of the FPs are guilty of creating bubbles and echo chambers. These people never really read counterpoints or differing opinions, they are fed just what they want to hear every day, all day.
Sometimes, they need a reminder that the world doesn’t revolve around enthusiasts. Normal people couldn’t care less about something like a Chevy SS, they’ll buy a Toyota Camry or a Prius because it’s the only car they’ll ever need. And cars like the Prius and Camry are perfectly fine, they do their jobs like some cars can’t ever do. But they’re labelled as “bad” by sites like Jalopnik just because they’re not “fun”.
...the last 18-24 months have basically seen the main site turn into a political soap box. And it’s rather sad.
I’m okay with the political stories that hold a critical car element. Political car stories are still car stories.
However, since Gawker got axed, Gawker’s propaganda bled into Jalopnik and Gizmodo, and now sometimes you’ll see a post that makes you go “uh, why did you write this?” Sadly, it’s the new Gawker from here on out; snark turned up to 11, clickbait as far as the eye can see, and just as much journalistic integrity as a site like ThinkProgress. :(
"Bytemite" (bytemite)
01/20/2017 at 12:28, STARS: 0
Right at the OBD1 cutoff. Coincidence?
"Nauraushaun" (nauraushaun12)
01/20/2017 at 15:59, STARS: 0
Yeah it is actually. What’s not a coincidence is that it’s right around the time the Japanese bubble burst and the sports car bubble burst. After ‘94 we had no new Supras/300ZXs/cool shit, just late years for the existing models which are harder to find.
"Bytemite" (bytemite)
01/20/2017 at 16:36, STARS: 0
I hear you. What about the S2000, MR2 Spyder, 350Z, Evo/STi, RX-8, and other early 2000s cars though? Any of them to your liking?
"Nauraushaun" (nauraushaun12)
01/21/2017 at 06:20, STARS: 1
The 350Z is too fat and not fast enough, the MR2 Spyder is too small and not cool enough, I’m not an AWD guy or a sedan guy, and the RX-8 is no RX-8. I adore the S2000 but I feel like the rest were declining and on their death bed in the noughties, and few survived the decade.
90s were the golden days.
"Nauraushaun" (nauraushaun12)
01/21/2017 at 16:38, STARS: 0
That should’ve said “The RX-8 is no RX-7".
Say what you will about the RX-8, it definitely
is
an RX-8