by "Trevor Slattery, ACTOR" (anacostiabikecompany)
Published 01/12/2017 at 10:11
by "Trevor Slattery, ACTOR" (anacostiabikecompany)
Published 01/12/2017 at 10:11
No Tags
STARS: 10
Poor guy brought a used AMG R63 Wagon from a non-certified MB dealer.
Turns out the engine has defective cylinder head bolts!
The end result is he suddenly starts misfiring and throwing CELs. Checks his oil and this is what he finds...
So he takes it to the dealer, who treats him very nice and gives him a nice loaner. Dude is thinking, “wow, this dealer is really nice to me, especially since I didn’t buy the car from them.” Then he gets the estimate.
BAM!
A link to the tale of horror and pain
And remember, when buying used DO YOUR HOMEWORK. This problem was well known. Don’t let this happen to you. Poor guy.
"Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras" (jegoingout)
01/12/2017 at 10:20, STARS: 13
We need to discuss the fact he owned a CTSV wagon and a R63 AMG
"whoarder is tellurium" (whoarder)
01/12/2017 at 10:23, STARS: 7
Might as well LS swap.
"Trevor Slattery, ACTOR" (anacostiabikecompany)
01/12/2017 at 10:23, STARS: 9
He is attempting the repair himself! He is a madman.
"runnersp, formerly known as t_s" (runnersp)
01/12/2017 at 10:25, STARS: 0
The passage of time has not mellowed the looks.
"Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras" (jegoingout)
01/12/2017 at 10:38, STARS: 18
He’s the American hero we all deserve
"Matthew Phillips" (flatsidewaysfl)
01/12/2017 at 10:52, STARS: 1
it’s an early 2000's Minivan on steroids, what did you expect.
"runnersp, formerly known as t_s" (runnersp)
01/12/2017 at 10:53, STARS: 0
It’s much more offensive than any minivan. It’s quite possibly one of the ugliest cars from the start of the milennium.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
01/12/2017 at 10:55, STARS: 9
when the estimate is 57000, even if you engine swap it to something else, if you can do it for even HALF of the estimate, you come out ahead.....
"whoarder is tellurium" (whoarder)
01/12/2017 at 10:56, STARS: 8
Oh see, hes cheating. He has a lift.
"Matthew Phillips" (flatsidewaysfl)
01/12/2017 at 11:01, STARS: 2
Should I go on ?
"Trevor Slattery, ACTOR" (anacostiabikecompany)
01/12/2017 at 11:04, STARS: 13
You have to read the thread. He brought it JUST TO DO THIS REPAIR. A $2500 lift is still cheaper than going to the dealer. The whole thing is tragic, man.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
01/12/2017 at 11:13, STARS: 3
Plus you can probably use everything as a tax write off with some creative accounting if you’re making income off a blog.
"Trevor Slattery, ACTOR" (anacostiabikecompany)
01/12/2017 at 11:26, STARS: 1
Hate to say it, but I actually like them.
"fintail" (fintail)
01/12/2017 at 11:51, STARS: 0
Indeed, an M156 with these issues? No way! Another one where I probably don’t have the guts to ever proceed.
On the plus side, you’ll blow em away at your local MBCA events. There’s a couple of these in the Seattle area, and the one that shows up to the yearly show is always a crowd pleaser.
"AfromanGTO" (afromangto)
01/12/2017 at 11:59, STARS: 0
He should drop the S65 AMG TT V12 into it now! lol
"Trevor Slattery, ACTOR" (anacostiabikecompany)
01/12/2017 at 12:15, STARS: 1
All that because of this. Bolt head sheared right off. The upgrades have a standard 6pt bolt heads instead of recessed Torx.
"Arrivederci" (arrividerci)
01/12/2017 at 12:49, STARS: 3
I can’t believe I read (skimmed) the whole thing. Amazing story. Guy buys unicorn R63 formerly owned by NFL star, driven by his wife. Comes with stock wheels as well as expensive dubs (didn’t see if he sold those, apparently they cost $1k each). Drives it for 12k miles then head bolt goes exactly where Mercedes tech said it would. MB Care worthless as expected. Guy buys lift to pull the M156 from his van. As of now he has it successfully pulled and disassembled. Doesn’t appear to have any damage, amazingly enough. Now he’s contemplating what to do with it since it’s out and what to replace.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
01/12/2017 at 12:54, STARS: 2
why do people think mercedes is great car? it seems like they screwed up so bad i wouldnt trust any of their cars.
"Trevor Slattery, ACTOR" (anacostiabikecompany)
01/12/2017 at 12:55, STARS: 5
It is epic, ain’t it? I admit that if I was $35k into a car with 80,ooo miles on it and a blown engine that would cost more than I paid for the damn car, I’d be doing the same thing.
My marriage would probably depend on it.
"Arrivederci" (arrividerci)
01/12/2017 at 12:59, STARS: 1
Agreed - also the same reason I haven’t leapt into 997 ownership, as I wouldn’t have an alternative means of transportation when it eventually needs an expensive repair since we only have space for two cars right now. Buying a house this year, so that will change :D, but then funds will be low :(.
"Trevor Slattery, ACTOR" (anacostiabikecompany)
01/12/2017 at 13:08, STARS: 5
As someone in the thread said, “there is a difference between engineering expertise and parts sourcing expertise.”
They can engineer and design the shit out of cars. Handling things like production quality and parts acquisition...they are no better than anyone else, IMHO. Especially if you don’t know what to buy.
My boy just brought Benzos for him and his wife. The service department flat out told them, “you get rid of this before the warranty expires, ya dig?”
"osucycler" (osucycler)
01/12/2017 at 13:33, STARS: 1
I just read the whole still ongoing thread! That guy is crazy dedicated!
"RacinBob" (racinbob)
01/12/2017 at 13:47, STARS: 3
Assuming no rod knock. Here’s what I would do. Change the head gaskets and bolts. Pull and clean the oil pan, pull a rod bearing and inspect. If all looks good, reassemble. Put oil in and let it idle for an hour. Then change oil and see hot it goes. I’ve seen worse in race engines and had no long term damage if caught early enough. I bet he caught it early enough.
"RacinBob" (racinbob)
01/12/2017 at 13:48, STARS: 1
PS. if it is expensive to pull the pan. Just dump and flush the oil, change the head gaskets and bolts and give it a try.
"Trevor Slattery, ACTOR" (anacostiabikecompany)
01/12/2017 at 14:12, STARS: 1
It sounds like that is the path he is on.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
01/12/2017 at 14:17, STARS: 1
truly torque to yeild bolts...... you would figure the guy would be able to just replace the bolts. might need to get out the pipe wrench to remove the last of the stobbs, but nothing too outlandish.....
"Trevor Slattery, ACTOR" (anacostiabikecompany)
01/12/2017 at 14:27, STARS: 2
Unfortunately the bolts are under the camshafts so everything has to get torn apart to do it. But he has to check to make sure there is no Con rod/bearing damage as well. Oh, and the head gasket was delaminated upon inspection. The heads are already off.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
01/12/2017 at 14:38, STARS: 2
thats a truly spectacular mess. .....
"Trevor Slattery, ACTOR" (anacostiabikecompany)
01/12/2017 at 15:02, STARS: 4
It is the Helm’s Deep of at home repairs.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
01/12/2017 at 15:17, STARS: 2
but it will sure make for a good story.
“so there i was at the dealer, staring down a $57THOUSAAAAND dollar estimate, so you know what i done? i fixed it MYSELF”
"G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3" (gbodyman)
01/12/2017 at 15:36, STARS: 2
I’m on GRM, so I was following the thread from the start. Sometimes these things happen, and the progress he’s been making in his garage is quite incredible.
"G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3" (gbodyman)
01/12/2017 at 15:39, STARS: 2
It’s Mazdeuce! Did you expect anything less?
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
01/12/2017 at 15:58, STARS: 2
The three biggest fiascos I can think of are all due to parts manufacturers screwing up. Not engineering. Balance shafts, 156 head bolts, and takata air bags.
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
01/12/2017 at 16:12, STARS: 22
That was painful. For multiple reasons. Sounds like he’s was a momentary idiot who didn’t do his research. Sounds the his dealer doesn’t have a clue either. Most of the comments were dumb. I hate forums that aren’t oppo.
Head bolts should have been one of the first things he took care of when he bought it. Had he done literally one search on Google before buying he could have figured this out.
Bottom ends are basically bullet proof. Failures much worse than his have been repaired. These engines very rarely require compete replacements.
They are very rebuildable engines. I’ve done a few myself, some of which I’ve documented on here years ago. They’re not hard as long as you have the right tools. Every internal part is available.
Heads, bolts, gaskets at a dealer should cost about $5-6k. I can do it in a day and a half. Had his dumb ass dealer just quoted that to begin with his thread would have ended three months ago because he probably just would have paid them to do it.
The heads can be removed in car without too much trouble. And he took off way more than necessary to remove the engine from the bottom. Whole front end can stay on.
My head hurts from all the pain of reading through all of that. I really wish I had known about it when his problems started. I would have contacted him and told him everything I know to help him avoid all this trouble. I would have even let him supply his own parts if he felt like shipping the car to me. So much pain for no reason all because of a few inept decisions and statements.
That being said, he seems like a cool guy who is capable of doing this himself. I completely respect him for that and I love that he isn’t just throwing the car away. Good luck to him, I hope it turns out perfectly!
"Trevor Slattery, ACTOR" (anacostiabikecompany)
01/12/2017 at 16:13, STARS: 0
Dude is a madman.
"Trevor Slattery, ACTOR" (anacostiabikecompany)
01/12/2017 at 16:18, STARS: 2
Head bolts should have been one of the first things he took care of when he bought it. Had he done literally one search on Google before buying he could have figured this out.
Yeah man. When I read it the first time without knowing how it ends my heart dropped when I saw the photo of the dipstick. How could he not do his research man?
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
01/12/2017 at 16:37, STARS: 5
Are you telling me that if you’re going to buy an expensive used car you’re not going to do a quick search “blah blah car problems”?
It would have come up.
Had he asked anyone who knows anything about these engines they would have told him that. I get this request regularly from people who buy these cars used.
Don’t “c’mon son” me in my area of expertise
"G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3" (gbodyman)
01/12/2017 at 16:47, STARS: 1
Not really. I would have done the same.
"Nimbus The Legend - Riding on air like a cloud" (nimbus-the-legend)
01/12/2017 at 16:58, STARS: 1
mistake #1 - buying this hideous car
mistake #2 - buying hideous european car from a non certified dealer
mistake #3 - going to the dealer when you didnt buy your car from the dealer
mistake #4 - not taking it to and independent shop for a second quote
Mistake #5 - doing reseach about this models common problems and issues before buying said car...
"Trevor Slattery, ACTOR" (anacostiabikecompany)
01/12/2017 at 17:01, STARS: 1
Oh I agree. I totally would have done the same. But most non car people call me a madman as well.
"Trevor Slattery, ACTOR" (anacostiabikecompany)
01/12/2017 at 17:05, STARS: 3
The GIF was my thoughts about the buyer! lol!
"Trevor Slattery, ACTOR" (anacostiabikecompany)
01/12/2017 at 17:06, STARS: 2
Apparently Road and Track found the story worthwhile.
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
01/12/2017 at 17:33, STARS: 1
Lol I thought you were being sarcastic, basically trying to say what I said was ridiculous
Also, I’m grumpy today so I’m sorry if I came across like a dick
"Trevor Slattery, ACTOR" (anacostiabikecompany)
01/12/2017 at 17:37, STARS: 1
Dude...you were totally on point. I know full well you know your shit my brother. Where is your shop located?
"Amoore100" (amoore100)
01/12/2017 at 18:05, STARS: 1
The Sienna, Five Hundred, and (flamesuit on) Tribeca are well-proportioned at least. I can do far worse.
But I digress, every generation has its own mingers and we just have to take them for what they are. I just fear that we are approaching the days when every single damned car will just be made of random angles and protrusions.
"Chasaboo" (chasaboo)
01/12/2017 at 19:06, STARS: 0
It’s funny how people really do think that Mercedes Benz are reliable cars.
For this schmuck, sad but true.
"LJ909" (lj909)
01/12/2017 at 19:45, STARS: 0
He couldn’t have been satisfied with a standard R500? Hell even an GL AMG?
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
01/12/2017 at 20:35, STARS: 1
Thanks man. Portlandia.
"timgray" (timgray)
01/12/2017 at 20:40, STARS: 2
Actually a lot of people are pretty much dumb as a box of rocks and do not do ANY research on cars they buy.
Opponauts are honestly the upper 1% of car owners. the other 99%... Well we all see how they drive and care for their cars.
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
01/12/2017 at 20:47, STARS: 0
You’re right. But I would say there is probably another 10% that are like us, but aren’t on oppo
But yeah, I agree. I used to spend time on other forums trying to help out when I had a few spare minutes, but no one have a shit what I had to say (not that I care mind you, I just wanted them to have and utilize good information, I don’t need praise or validation). But they would basically tell me to pound sand while taking the “easy” advice from people who clearly (to me) had no idea what they were talking about. They didn’t like what I had to say because it was always the most expensive option usually. At least that’s my assumption. I don’t know, maybe I came across like a know it all dbag. Actually, yeah, probably the latter!
"pip bip - choose Corrour" (hhgttg69)
01/13/2017 at 06:05, STARS: 1
this is an awesome thread!
"smobgirl" (smobgirl)
01/13/2017 at 10:22, STARS: 1
He should write to Doug for advice.
"Seat Safety Switch" (seat-safety-switch)
01/13/2017 at 12:17, STARS: 1
If anyone can rebuild this thing, it’s Mazdeuce. Dude has done more nightmare projects than I’ve done projects, period.
"V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches" (jbv12)
01/13/2017 at 15:09, STARS: 0
W220 ABC is a superbly engineered system. Fact.
"V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches" (jbv12)
01/13/2017 at 15:12, STARS: 2
That’s why I waited until I had a house to buy my S600 lol. Right now it’s sitting in my garage on broken suspension and I really couldn’t care less. I can’t drive it on the road for a few months anyways so I’m not going to stress over it now.
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
01/13/2017 at 15:44, STARS: 0
Yeah but that wasn’t one major component that was either expensive or safety related and failing crazy early. That was a combination of components that often fail at a certain age and rarely do so in grossly unsafe ways. ABC is also kind of expected to be a pain, bleeding edge and all.
"V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches" (jbv12)
01/13/2017 at 16:13, STARS: 0
True enough lol.
"Steve in Manhattan" (blogenfreude01)
01/13/2017 at 17:13, STARS: 0
Buy a junkyard engine (plenty of people wreck these things) for 6 or 8 grand and put it in.
"BaconSandwich is tasty." (baconsandwich)
01/13/2017 at 18:46, STARS: 1
Someone explain to me... why is a recessed Torx bolt a good idea?
"BaconSandwich is tasty." (baconsandwich)
01/13/2017 at 18:50, STARS: 1
Clearly he’s a masochist. :P
"deekster_caddy" (deekster_caddy)
01/13/2017 at 18:56, STARS: 1
tl;dr, but the engine wasn’t blown, right? It just needed head gaskets and new bolts? WTF to any dealer who quotes “new engine” when it needs some top end work.
"dogisbadob" (dogisbadob)
01/13/2017 at 20:17, STARS: 0
inb4 still worth it for an awesome minivan thing
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
01/13/2017 at 20:29, STARS: 1
Exactly. I understand their thinking but it’s very much a case of “that escalated quickly”. There have been cases of hydro-lock causing bent rods, but they’re not that common and have been caused by other things as well, like injectors dumping in fuel, or sucking a ton of water in the intake. But again, not common. They could also have been thinking there would be bearing or cylinder damage. But like I said up above, the bottom ends are bullet proof. The cylinders are so hard that I’ve never seen one missing hone markings or with a ridge worn at the top. If I remember correctly, most of the high performance builds done by weistec and their ilk do nothing with the bottom ends.
"AfromanGTO" (afromangto)
01/14/2017 at 12:06, STARS: 0
This was an awesome read! This guy is one awesome dad!
"Wolfsbane" (wolfsbane)
01/14/2017 at 16:45, STARS: 1
Oh Lord, won’t you buy me a Mercedes Benz?
My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends.
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So Lord, won’t you buy me a Mercedes Benz?
"Adrian" (adriangc)
01/14/2017 at 21:03, STARS: 0
Maybe I’m missing something here, but 997s are pretty bulletproof after 2008. IMS bearing issue is gone. General repairs will be more pricey, but nothing compared to this.
"Clown Shoe Pilot" (csp)
01/15/2017 at 18:18, STARS: 1
lifts aren’t cheating. they’re awesome.
"whoarder is tellurium" (whoarder)
01/15/2017 at 18:28, STARS: 0
I’d love it if I had a lift.
"Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom" (will-alib)
01/15/2017 at 18:55, STARS: 1
Ooof. Somebody write this guy a script for Benzaprine for the hurts...
But wouldn’t the M-B zone rep get involved to help this guy out?
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
01/16/2017 at 12:30, STARS: 0
I couldn’t imagine paying that to repair it, but those are among the coolest M-B vehicles built in the last decade. I would gladly drive one.
"Arrivederci" (arrividerci)
01/17/2017 at 08:15, STARS: 1
My budget is (was) mostly for the 997.1 cars, or pre-2009. The 2009+ models with the 9A1(?) seem to be holding their value much better, largely for the reason you described above. That said, the IMSB issue in the 2006-2008 cars is pretty overblown, but still a possibility.
"gawdzillla" (gawdzillla)
01/17/2017 at 15:08, STARS: 0
how do i contact you before buying an AMG ?
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
01/17/2017 at 15:15, STARS: 1
Just like this. I’m fairly active on here. If you have posting privileges you can even just make a post asking for my help or whatever. Or just reply to literally any of my comments, I’ll see it.
"His Stigness" (HisStigness)
01/17/2017 at 23:10, STARS: 2
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
Lol. That advice applies to many jobs on German cars, and why I have no problem working on them, and why I laugh at people who bitch about them.
"Whattoknow" (whattoknow)
10/28/2018 at 22:55, STARS: 0
Hello,
I tried to do a response but am unclear if it published so please forgive me if this is repetitive. I just purchased a 2007 e63 wagon with 95k miles. I am wondering if I’m out of the woods regarding the head bolt issue or they should be done? Is there anything else you recommend doing? Thank you for your consideration
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
10/29/2018 at 15:38, STARS: 1
Hey! Welcome to oppo! And congrats on a sweet ride!
You have an early engine. If head bolts haven’t been done, they should be. If they were done at a dealer, any dealer should be able to see that in your service history with your VIN.
Also, it would be wise to check the cams and lifters for wear while the valve covers are off. And then check the air injection ports on the heads for carbon build up. If those are plugged it requires head removal to clean out.
"Whattoknow" (whattoknow)
10/29/2018 at 16:12, STARS: 0
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer. It wasn’t inexpensive so I’m on the fence with proceeding or just turning it around. I’m going to assume the estimates of 5k are on target to use the Weistec kit. I have the VMI and I see the valve covers were replaced. That doesn’t mean the bolts were does it? Thank you for all your help and consideration.
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
10/29/2018 at 18:16, STARS: 0
No problem! I don’t know about the Weistec kit, I’ve never used it. Are you talking about their head stud kit? My estimates are for factory parts, and off the top of my head I don’t know how they compare in price with the Weistec studs.
More likely the valve cover gaskets were replaced. Which does not include head bolts. The VMI gives very limited descriptions of the work that was performed so it can take a little extra digging to see what exactly was done.
"Whattoknow" (whattoknow)
10/29/2018 at 20:02, STARS: 0
You’re really great to share your expertise. Some things I’ve read are downright scary as to constant repairs etc. with the headbolts and little things I’d be at 36k and with 95k miles will I be waiting for the blitz and bang as one writer so elegantly wrote. I’d appreciate your opinion if you would be so kind.
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
10/29/2018 at 22:19, STARS: 0
What I tell people is to look at the cams and lifters while the valve covers are off. Because that's really the only other big item on that engine that's common. There are other things, but they're so much less common they're not worth worrying about. But whether or not the cost is worth it is for you to decide.
"Whattoknow" (whattoknow)
10/29/2018 at 22:29, STARS: 0
Understood and thanks. Would you know of a good Indy near NYC or NJ?
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
10/29/2018 at 22:54, STARS: 0
Sorry, no. Don’t be afraid of dealers. I suggest shopping around. My dealer is actually cheaper than some of the local independents, and they still sublet to us sometimes. The internet’s obsession with dealers versus indies is dumb. A good shop is a good shop.