by "Pyrochazm" (pyrochazm)
Published 01/04/2017 at 11:37
by "Pyrochazm" (pyrochazm)
Published 01/04/2017 at 11:37
Tags: Car buying
STARS: 0
So I’m looking for a good used car and I ran across some Saabs in my price range. (<5000) The thing is I have zero experience with them. Hell, I don’t personally know anyone who has ever owned one. I’ve never even sat in one. They look nice though, the interiors look as comfy as fleece pajama pants.
But what are they like? Are they maintenance nightmares? Are parts hard to source? Do they have stupid chronic problems? I hope not because I kinda want something different.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
01/04/2017 at 11:39, STARS: 1
They’re a good high-end GM vehicle that have that sweet dead-badge depreciation.
"SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie" (sidewaysondirt)
01/04/2017 at 11:39, STARS: 0
I would run away screaming from a GM-era Saab. There’s a reason they’re so cheap. Not sure if parts are hard to come by, but they aren’t reliable.
"ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)" (adabofoppo)
01/04/2017 at 11:41, STARS: 5
It’s a bit of a Saab story, so have some tissues ready...
"Pyrochazm" (pyrochazm)
01/04/2017 at 11:59, STARS: 0
OK!
"Pyrochazm" (pyrochazm)
01/04/2017 at 12:00, STARS: 0
Get out.
"punkgoose17" (punkgoose17)
01/04/2017 at 12:00, STARS: 0
The 2.6L V6 had valve burning problems in 2007 and 2008 models because they got defective intake valves from the supplier.
The 2.3L I4 has a better reputation than the 2.0L I4. I am not sure what is better in reality.
I am also looking to get a 9-5 for <5,000 in a few months.
"ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)" (adabofoppo)
01/04/2017 at 12:01, STARS: 0
Don’t blame me. You asked.
"Your boy, BJR" (jerseyshoreben)
01/04/2017 at 12:04, STARS: 3
“Looking for a good used car”
“Saab”
Yeah keep looking.
"Nibbles" (nibbles)
01/04/2017 at 12:04, STARS: 0
Old Saabs are great. Don’t buy a 900/9-3 from 1994 through 2002 unless it’s a Viggen.
2nd gen 9-3s are more reliable than rumored. They can be susceptible to electrical gremlins but no more than your average BMW. The only thing you really need to watch for is sludge (people are notorious for not following manufacturers recommendations and putting shit oil in an engine with tight tolerance)
"Pyrochazm" (pyrochazm)
01/04/2017 at 12:06, STARS: 0
Yeah.
"Pyrochazm" (pyrochazm)
01/04/2017 at 12:09, STARS: 0
I have heard about sludge problems before. Is there a way to tell if the engine is starting to build up sludge?
"Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle" (1500sand535)
01/04/2017 at 12:27, STARS: 1
They’re good looking, depreciated, usually fast, and available with a stick. What more do you need to know!?
"Nibbles" (nibbles)
01/04/2017 at 12:29, STARS: 2
Sludge info found here:
https://www.eeuroparts.com/blog/1661/saab-sludge-years/
Basically it was rectified MY 2003 but it never hurts to check or listen for the telltale signs.
"arl" (arl1968)
01/04/2017 at 12:38, STARS: 1
My parents have owned three of them; a 900, a 9-5 wagon and a 9-3. My step-Mom is still driving her red 9-3 daily. No real issues to speak of on the 9-3. I think they had a problem with a couple of bad alternators, but otherwise it’s been rock solid. They do all the required maintenance and she doesn’t put many miles on it, but it’s been a reliable car for her.
"Pyrochazm" (pyrochazm)
01/04/2017 at 12:38, STARS: 0
To be fair I knew nothing about them. It’s why I asked. For all I knew Saabs could have have been a paragon of reliability and I just didn’t know. Of course this doesn’t seem to be the case.
"Pyrochazm" (pyrochazm)
01/04/2017 at 12:41, STARS: 0
If they hold up long term, if parts need to be ordered directly from Trollhatten. They do seem to check all the other boxes though: Quick, manual, practical ect.
"Nibbles" (nibbles)
01/04/2017 at 12:41, STARS: 0
The 2.3 B235R was the engine to have in late 900s/early 9-3s. It was sorely underrated at 230hp (accounts put it closer to 265) and was a beast compared to the B205R’s 205. The later 9-3s didn’t get the 2.3L, instead they got the B207E/L/R “Ecotec” which was more reliable and better balanced.
"Pyrochazm" (pyrochazm)
01/04/2017 at 12:48, STARS: 0
Thanks! That puts the 9-5 back into “maybe” territory.
"Nibbles" (nibbles)
01/04/2017 at 12:56, STARS: 1
I didn’t even realize. 95% of the time people ask about Saabs it’s 9-3, so I defaulted.
The 9-5s are sleeper hits. Most of the time the later model ones have been impeccably maintained (owing to the maturity of the 1st and sometimes 2nd owners) and make for excellent used cars. They kept the B235R HOT turbo I4 which is a beast of a motor. Buy 2003 or later and you’re clear of the majority of the issues.
"Manwich - now Keto-Friendly" (manwich)
01/04/2017 at 13:31, STARS: 2
What’s your definition of “good”?
I owned a 2000 Saab 9-3 with the base 185HP turbo and manual transmission for about 4 years... I paid $2500 for it and it had 294,000km on it when I bought it, and 397000km when I got rid of it.
Over that time, I averaged CAD$200/month in maintenance and repair costs alone. And over 4 years and about 100,000km, my total average monthly cost was around CAD$600 (includes all repairs, maintenance, insurance, fuel, depreciation and registration fees in Ontario). However, you may spend a little more these days.
Some thoughts/memories:
They feel solid
Parts are a bit more expensive on average compared to a regular Ford/GM/Honda/Toyota/Mazda vehicle. The most expensive repair I had was $1500 to get the AC compressor replaced... and that was with a used compressor. With a new one, it would have cost around $2000. Other repairs are typically in the CAD$600 to CAD$900 range.
I strongly recommend you get it serviced at a Saab specialist who has the Saab WIS. Many mechanics say they can work on Saabs, but if they don’t have the Saab WIS, there is a good chance that you’ll be paying for unnecessary repairs because the mechanic is guessing at your expense because he doesn’t have the equipment to do a proper diagnosis. If you are in the West Toronto area, I recommend you go Aktive Motors.
http://www.aktivemotors.ca/
you can run it with regular unleaded, but it’s happier with 91 octane... particularly in hot weather. If you have the higher output SE model, then 91 Octane is mandatory.
the steering is a bit twitchy and affected by torque steer
it’s a pretty comfortable car to drive longer distances
the pixels on the ‘information center’ stop working because the connection the display has to the circuit board detaches as it ages
4 wheel disk brakes are good. But it’s a rear-biased system which means the rears get applied first. That also means the rear brakes typically need new pads every 2 years/40,000km even with gentle driving
Do not install Bridgestone Pontenza tires on this car like I did. They tend to ‘cup’ and get really noisy after around 10,000km of use. The Michelin Premacy Tire is a better match for this car’s suspension.
The engine has a very flat torque curve between 2000 and 6000 rpm
Engine feels smooth because it has a balance shaft and it’s mounted on an isolated subframe.
You can get a lot of good info at The Saab Site
When you change the oil, using Mobil 1 5W40 Euro formula full synthetic oil is highly recommended if you want the engine to last and not sludge up.
It’s a good idea to drop the oil pan every 100,000km or so to make sure the screen on the oil pickup isn’t getting clogged with crap.
This car has a DIC that typically lasts around 200,000 to 300,000km. Replacing it cost me $600. You know you have to replace it because you get the occasional no-start, but then it will start if you turn the ignition off and back on.
It has excellent rust protection. After being 12 years old with 397,000km, my Saab only had one small spec of rust in spite of living it’s live in the rust belt.
The car can be chipped to make 240HP... but then 91 octane becomes mandatory and you may need to replace the upper engine mount with a stronger one from the SE or SPG model.
After 397,000km, my Saab was still on the original engine, manual transmission and clutch.
The HVAC design is crap... broken knob shafts are common. Avoid the issue by setting it one way and then don’t touch it. The HVAC system itself heats and cools well. It’s just the crappy design of the shafts, knobs and heater box that is shit. Don’t waste your time and money replacing the heater box like I did. It won’t make things better because the actual design is shit. Just replace the crappy plastic knob shafts as needed and be gentle with them... don’t force them.
You will have the odd electrical/sensor issue.... but it’s not dreadful. I had to replace my air intake sensor, coolant temp sensor and at least one other
If you experience erratic acceleration, replace the APC valve as it’s relatively cheap/easy
The original stainless steel exhaust lasted for 12 years.
If your goal is to have a car that is cheap to run overall, get a Civic/Corolla instead.
If you’re willing to spend a little more on a monthly basis (and YOU WILL spend more) for something that is a little nicer and a little different, then by all means, get a Saab.
Just make sure there is a Saab specialist in your area.
"Manwich - now Keto-Friendly" (manwich)
01/04/2017 at 13:36, STARS: 0
You just drop the oil pan and check to make sure the oil pickup screen isn’t clogged with sludge.
"Manwich - now Keto-Friendly" (manwich)
01/04/2017 at 13:39, STARS: 0
They can be reliable if you’re proactive or have a specialist be proactive for you.
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
01/04/2017 at 13:48, STARS: 0
Ben also hates them, so take his point with a grain of salt.
"Your boy, BJR" (jerseyshoreben)
01/04/2017 at 14:42, STARS: 1
I also have rainman levels of knowledge about them, having grown up around them, apprenticed with a Saab specialist and worked as a tech at a Cadillac Saab Hummer dealer. So it’s all well and good that you know that I dislike them, but NEVER write off my knowledge about them.
"Aero" (Aero)
01/04/2017 at 14:51, STARS: 0
My current daily is an ‘01 9-5 Aero with a few mods. I’ve put about 20k miles on it with no issues, but I make sure to do preventative measures. The DIC and crankshaft position sensor were replaced as soon as I got it and I make sure to change the oil at 5k miles with high end synthetic and a larger oil filter.
In late ‘03 Saab updated the B235 block with a new PCV system, which eliminated the sludge issues. The earlier cars will sludge if someone used low quality oil or went too long between oil changes, but you can drop the oil pan and clean them up relatively easy. If you don’t do the work yourself it can get expensive and most shops have no idea what the normal issues are, which can be frustrating. They’re really quite reliable if you do the research and stay on top of maintenance.
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
01/04/2017 at 15:07, STARS: 0
I didnt say you dont know about them.
But chances are you probably arent going to praise them at all, only focusing on the shitty parts.
"Your boy, BJR" (jerseyshoreben)
01/04/2017 at 17:25, STARS: 1
That’s because if you’re in the market for a cheap car that needs to be good, there will only be negatives with Saabs. As a company they did some cool shit, they were also decent cars for the money when new. But buying a Saab as a reliable daily driver is RETARDED.
See: My pop’s automobile choices, his repair bills.
"Nick Has an Exocet" (nickallain)
01/04/2017 at 21:02, STARS: 0
My only experience with a Saab:
I was looking for a new car back in the day and my dad saw this late 90s 9-3 vert that he forced me to test drive. I wanted no part of it because it looked like a shitbox. He insisted on a test drive. The battery was dead. He continued to insist on the test drive. The used car guy jumped it. Only half the electronics lit up. I said “dad, this seems like a bad idea, this car is broken.” and he insisted that it was fine, and that we should drive it. We got a half mile from the dealer and it died. Poof. We got out, walked back, handed them the keys and said: It died a half mile up the road, have fun.
"mrmocha" (mrmocha)
01/27/2017 at 10:55, STARS: 0
“Where there’s smoke there’s a Saab”?
"mstrjon32" (mstrjon32)
01/28/2017 at 03:18, STARS: 0
My 2005 9-3 SS has been one of the most reliable, and most enjoyable cars I’ve ever owned. Seriously underrated. There aren’t many cars on the road, even today, that will top 150+ MPH in anger or return north of 40 (US) mpg if you’re careful.