by "2Fast2Furious - Now with 100% more Hyundai Excel" (2furious2befast)
Published 01/03/2017 at 16:06
by "2Fast2Furious - Now with 100% more Hyundai Excel" (2furious2befast)
Published 01/03/2017 at 16:06
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STARS: 2
We’ve all heard of the myth that suggests that American cars are super unreliable compared to imports, while I own that American bueaty above, and you guys all own a variety of American models, I’m wondering if anyone believes in this myth or has any experience that would suggest this myth true.
-This only goes for American brands, Ford, GM, Chrysler ECT. Not import brands that assembly cars in America.
-”I may be biased being that I own a vehicle with the Buick 3.8"
"OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars" (jakeauern)
01/03/2017 at 16:15, STARS: 0
We’ll it depends on what you mean by import. You can’t say “only American brands such as *blah blah blah* but not specify if you’re talking about all imports or just Japanese(which have generally been much more reliable). An example: Toyotas and Chevys have in the pst had the same radiotar. The American parts in general lasted 100k MAX. Meanwhile you could pull a radiator out of a Toyota pickup that looks identiacal and it works with 300k and 20 years on it.
"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo)
01/03/2017 at 16:15, STARS: 6
I’ve always been of the mindset that reliability goes
1. Japanese
2. American
3. German
4. British
5. Italian
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
01/03/2017 at 16:16, STARS: 0
from what I understand at one point american cars were junk. When I had the allroad, for each repair we did, we were also doing one on my brother-in-laws camry, its just that the Allroad took 10x longer and 3x more expensive
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
01/03/2017 at 16:17, STARS: 0
its not that they are unreliable, so much as it is PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE...... they are designed to hold up long enough to get out of the warranty period, and a few years. they are meant to be on the road for 10, 12 years tops. after that the electrics are on borrowed time, and everything is run off them electrics nowadays.
its not the good old days, where a truck lasted a lifetime....
"My citroen won't start" (lucasboechat)
01/03/2017 at 16:19, STARS: 0
Well, I don’t think American cars are unreliable.
They just usually lack in quality, fit and finish and innovation when compared to European or Japanese counterparts.
"djmt1" (djmt1)
01/03/2017 at 16:20, STARS: 4
I’m foreign and from someone looking in from outside the window:
GM: Very Reliable
Ford: Average
FCA: One the most unreliable
Tesla: Early adopters beware
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
01/03/2017 at 16:22, STARS: 1
Contrary to what the internet says, this isn’t necessarily true. Every make has both reliable and unreliable models, engines, and transmissions.
GM 3.8 is very reliable but isn’t without issues. SBC/LS engines are very reliable, but also not without issue. Meanwhile your transmission is mostly held together by hopes, dreams, and shere luck.
I seem to recall Toyota having a nasty sludge and engine failure issue a few years back. 3.0 V6 maybe?
Honda automatics? No way in hell.
Old BMW versus new.
Mercedes M271? GTFAC. But anything else? Sure, with a few limitations here and there.
Ford goes back and forth with good versus bad Powerjoke engines.
"Bourbon&JellyBeans" (bourbonandjellybeans)
01/03/2017 at 16:22, STARS: 2
My dad’s 320,000 mile 2002 Mustang GT has an opinion on this.
"wiffleballtony" (wiffleballtony)
01/03/2017 at 16:22, STARS: 6
Depends on the era. Right now it’s probably fairly even. Except Chrysler.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
01/03/2017 at 16:23, STARS: 1
I would suggest that there have been periods of competitive shift back and forth, with one or the other out ahead in what they offer
on average
, but the American auto industry at the whole seems to be more uneven. Thus, in a period with the American auto industry lagging, the pits of failure have been much deeper, while the peaks have gone by without remark.
This is exaggerated still further by the fact that some of those slumps were accelerated by paradigm shifts - 70s oil crisis, late 80s emissions, etc. Because of that unevenness and variation, you had marques with a long and uncertain way to travel to a new paradigm. One each Cadillac 4-6-8 and Olds diesel later...
There’s also a focusing effect. Any Japanese car that was out and out utter garbage was probably less likely to cross the ocean.
Finally, the focus of a model in Japan is more likely to hold reliability above other considerations that a US manufacturer might choose to prioritize more highly - price point, performance, etc. etc.
All this adds up to as likely as not buying Japanese when buying a car blind, but why on earth would you do that?
"If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent" (essextee)
01/03/2017 at 16:24, STARS: 0
I think the myth is more about build quality than reliability. American manufacturers make/have made some of the most reliable engines there are, but then they go and put them in cars that fall apart long before the engine reaches it’s operational lifespan.
Imported cars, specifically germans, have great build quality on the rest of the car but thw engines are high strung. I know that when I eventually get rid of my BMW it’s probably gonna be because the engine blew up rather than because the list of minor issues got too big. If I had an American car it would be the other way around.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
01/03/2017 at 16:27, STARS: 1
My $0.02 is that it’s company specific, not country specific.
I think Ford and GM make a good car, and I wouldn’t buy anything from FCA if you held a gun to my head.
Honda and others proved years ago that you could build a good car here. It was corporate mismanagement that created the issues that the Big 3 went through, not something endemic to the US.
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
01/03/2017 at 16:27, STARS: 0
My old truck is branded as a Mazda, but it is all Ford Ranger underneath. I parked it at 269,000 miles, not because it wouldn’t run any longer, but because my wife was insisting that I get something new.
It still runs and drives, but is in need of some TLC before I can sell it.
"Manwich - now Keto-Friendly" (manwich)
01/03/2017 at 16:27, STARS: 3
Depends on which American car is being compared to what import.
If you’re comparing an old Buick LeSabre to an old Audi Allroad, the ‘import’ will be much worse.
But if you’re comparing an old Ford Windstar to a Toyota Sienna, then the import will be much better.
And having said that, just because a car has an American brand attached to it, doesn’t mean it isn’t an import.
For example... the Chrysler Crossfire... built in Germany, much of the design was done in Germany and it was sold when the company’s global head office was in Germany.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
01/03/2017 at 16:29, STARS: 0
No. Unless you’re going to pick on a very specific set of vehicles and problems. Eg, the GM 3.4 head gasket issue at 90-100k miles or the fact that your 90's Ford FWD transmission will shit the bed, hard, repeatedly. For the most part (disregarding the most recent vehicles from any manufacturer) American iron tends to be solid and simple and quite reliable. Stuff is cheaped out on and will break, but is generally not of critical nature. As far as I’m concerned there’s a scale to unreliability (again, historically—not necessarily more recent vehicles):
1. Japanese unreliability. Uh, whut? For the most part very solid and reliable. Any concerns will have to be filled in by someone else, but I’ve been led to believe that they are top-tier, no matter how much I dislike it.
2. American unreliability. Tends to be very specific and predictable, and also cheap to fix, due to the “simplify and overbuild” mentality. Catastrophic failures rare. Notable exception: Jeep.
3a. British unreliability. Barn-door engineering. Something something electrical issues. Can mend it with a hammer, but it WILL break again unless you fix it an expensive aftermarket way.
3b. German unreliability. Shit’s going down, don’t know what, when, why or how. Will be expensive. Alternately, you drive vehicle into the ground with never a day’s trouble.
4. Italian unreliability. Run.
5 going on 4 going on 3 going on 2 going on 1? Korean. Dunno. Check again in 6 months. It will have changed, at this rate they WILL be the best in a very short time.
Just my $0.02+$0.02+$0.02+$0.02+$0.02+$0.02
"Manwich - now Keto-Friendly" (manwich)
01/03/2017 at 16:29, STARS: 2
6. Russian
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
01/03/2017 at 16:33, STARS: 0
This. It depends what way you take it. Barring the last generation, GM for generally having parts stay intact (like the interior) is somewhare around late-90's Hyundai. For powertrain reliability, they’re nipping Toyota’s heels.
"pauljones" (pauljones)
01/03/2017 at 16:35, STARS: 5
My father used to say that if you wanted a car that would drive better than any other car, buy a German car. if you wanted a car that would run well longer than any other car, buy a Japanese car. If you wanted a car that would run like shit longer than any other car would run at all, buy an American car.
I would absolutely agree that there was some factual evidence to back up that assertion, but only until about ten years ago.
I owned a 90s Saturn, and that little fucker was the most incredibly unreliable bastard I’ve ever driven - and I’ve spent time driving a 1970s Jeep with a wiring problem. From disintegrating motor mounts to plastic clips holding the center console together breaking on a regular basis, that car was always falling apart at the seams. That being said, even at its worst (transmission slipping, cylinder misfires on the 405 freeway, bad drive pulleys, bad EGR valve, worn pistons, mis-installed headgasket, etc.), the little bastard absolutely refused to give up, and would still run, albeit terribly. Also, parts were plentiful and cheap, and it was an easy car to work on.
About the only thing on that little Saturn that didn’t break was the suspension system, which, astoundingly, was unkillable. That suspension will be the only thing to keep cockroaches company at the end of time, and it’ll probably outlast the damn cockroaches.
I now own a 2010 Toyota. In the now almost seven years that I’ve owned it, I’ve put approximately $3700 into it. I put $3000 into the Saturn the first year I owned it. The only weakness of the Toyota? The goddamn front suspension.
90s/early-aughts domestic cars were not the match of Japanese imports in my experience; ymmv.
However, since the mid-2000s, domestic quality seems to have skyrocketed, and if I were in the market for a new car, there are very few import-branded cars that I couldn’t think of a domestic-branded equivalent for that is as good or better.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
01/03/2017 at 16:35, STARS: 1
Honda paint, too. From what I remember at least.
"3point8isgreat" (3point8isgreatest)
01/03/2017 at 16:36, STARS: 0
My direct experience is showing me that American cars seem to do well when kept simple and focused on the major components. The less electronics and options, the better it’ll be. That said I think they tend more towards “average” on overall reliability as they age.
In all, I’ve owned a car from each of the Big 3. All have seemed “average” at reliability.
"Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies" (jordanwphillips)
01/03/2017 at 16:41, STARS: 0
A lot of companies are having problems with water based paint now
"e36Jeff now drives a ZHP" (e36jeff)
01/03/2017 at 16:44, STARS: 0
I am a firm believer in the statement that a chevy will run longer while broken than most cars will run, but I also think they will break sooner. Realistically, I think the reliability of almost any car is directly related the maintenance habits of its owner. My Father got an Audi 5000D to 450,000 miles and an e38 740iL to 350,000 miles, and currently has an F01 750Li somewhere around 140,000 miles. I have an e46 ZHP at 217,000 miles. All 4 of those cars have been more reliable than most cars I know of. I think between the lot of them they have left us stranded a total of 3 times(dead fuel pump in the ZHP, the 750Li shit all its oil out after a recall from the dealer that resulted in an oil line not being properly secured, and the Audi blew a head gasket). None of the cars really had any chronic issues. My Mom had a Toyota Camry that was also quite reliable, but I don’t remember the mileage on that one. It once drove 20+ miles with no transmission fluid after the drain bolt snapped off on a speed bump.
My only experience with American cars is my Wife’s Buick Lacrosse Super. It has around 80,000 miles on it and is on its third set of front wheel bearings, at least the third set of brakes, its second battery(and she thinks this one is now dying), all 4 shocks were blown before 60k miles, and it the front right wheel speed sensor is broken(there is something wrong with the wiring, it looks like there wasn’t enough slack in the harness and at some point the wire has been stretched to the point where it broke internally). It’s left her stranded a few times, all due to the battery. Starting around 60k miles it would just die if it was left sitting for more than 2-3 days. And replacing that battery is a nightmare.
My personal opinion is that GM didn’t do anything to beef up the car to deal with the extra weight and power of the V8 up front, as the brake and wheel bearings share part numbers with the V6 cars.
"E90M3" (e90m3)
01/03/2017 at 16:44, STARS: 0
My experience with early 2000s GM has left a sour taste in my mouth when it comes to American cars, my 1997 Explorer wasn’t much better either.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
01/03/2017 at 16:45, STARS: 0
No, I do not. I also don’t believe the “fact” that you can’t kill a Toyota or Honda. It isn’t that American cars are rubbish and Japanese cars are reliable econoboxes. It has to do with the number of these vehicles on the road. Let us take my 2006 GTO and a 2006 Camry for examples.
In 2006 the US had a total of 448,445 Camary
sales
In 2006 the US had a total of 13,948 GTO
sales
To the common person shopping around the people talking to about their cars are a much smaller pool for the GTO so it may seem like it has more issues than the Camry, but if you take into percentage of failures to cars produced they could be that same. That is why I don’t believe it. The markets are flooded with “mythical” imports and people forget that the we make some damn good cars, but they just cost a bit more. Sorry that cross shopping a Camry and a Verano doesn’t make any sense at all, to me at least.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
01/03/2017 at 16:47, STARS: 1
There was a stretch of time where Honda paint was “thin” and chipped/got damaged very easily. I think early-mid 00's.
Regarding paint formulas, I know the removal of lead from some epoxy primers was/is somewhat of a big deal.
"BorkBorkBjork" (tbirdlemons)
01/03/2017 at 16:51, STARS: 0
As usual, it’s complicated. Reliability can be measured in dozens of ways and no two parties will look at it the same way.
For example, an urban commuter may consider a vehicle that has had a 4 A/C repairs “unreliable”. That same vehicle, with the same A/C flaws, may be considered “bulletproof” by a rural driver who has put 300,000 miles on it and only cares that it starts and runs every day.
I am one who considers reliability to begin and end at a vehicles ability to run and drive, and a Chevy V8 will run poorly longer than most engines will run at all.
"DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
01/03/2017 at 16:57, STARS: 0
Don’t really know what to say myself. I’ll just leave the opinion of someone more experienced than me here.
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
TL;DW Domestic owners are cheaper and don’t maintain their vehicles as well.
"Dave the car guy , still here" (a3dave)
01/03/2017 at 17:03, STARS: 0
All depends on make , model and year of any breed and how well its maintained. I’ve seen Chevy trucks with 500k+ miles and I’ve seen Asian cars with 49k that were ready for the junk yard. I have a friend with a well maintained 2004 1.8t Audi A4 that still looks near new with 250k+ miles and the car is modded to almost 400 hp. Its all inhow you care for them. Its a given some vehicles never have a chance of living a long life but some will still go many miles. The best example of that is my uncle had a first year Fiat X1/9 which was modded to race specs for him to play with. It later went through 3 of my cousins hands for high school and college. It lasted well into the 90s. Never had the head off it after the big valves were done. The car was ran on Mobil 1 and had Krex Graphite additive in the gearbox. They put a couple clutches in it and did a lot of regular repairs. It went 200k+ miles. Its obvious that good car care can keep most cars going strong.
BTW, glad to have you here.
"Racin'Jason001" (racinjason001)
01/03/2017 at 17:09, STARS: 0
I’m not a big fan of Buick, which is no myth to everyone. :}
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
01/03/2017 at 17:24, STARS: 0
I’m pretty unimpressed with American build quality, and at least in the past, design. Both my Corvette and Escalade tend to reveal themselves as vehicles with at least some moderately questionable engineering choices and that were very obviously built with parts from the lowest bidder by overpaid union workers of questionable competence.
The Corvette has some fairly astonishing engineering work-arounds for what GM seems to have known was going to be shitty build quality and variances in components. It also had some nice touches, like the rear sway bar end link bolts that were both cross-threaded on the left side of the car from the factory, that suggest that at least one redneck in Bowling Green was being paid far too much money for the quality of work he was doing on the line.
The Escalade has better build quality, but it has certainly revealed that is was put together with a whole lot crappy chassis electronics that were clearly from the lowest bidder to GM.
Come to think of it, my Sister’s brand new 2016 Mustang has had a few build quality issues, too. I generally like the design and engineering of the car quite a lot, but the work done on the line in Flat Rock, Michigan leaves something to be desired. So far when servicing the car, I’ve found three or four places where wiring harnesses were never properly secured when they built the car. Also, the panel fit in a few places makes me wonder if someone was drunk on the line.
That said, all three of the American vehicles in the family do present attractive value propositions for what they are.
"TahoeSTi" (tahoesti)
01/03/2017 at 17:39, STARS: 0
MY Ford always turns on...when it breaks its almost always something cheap. It’s never left me stranded. Sure small things break more often but my 20 year old ford is way cheaper to keep on the road compared to a 20 year old BMW that’s for sure.
Also my fords interior is completely shredded the leather is like really thick paper bags instead of real leather. and it makes clunks and rattles....but is that part of reliability?
"mazda616" (mazda616)
01/03/2017 at 17:42, STARS: 0
By and large, no. It’s a model-specific basis. Would I trust a new Camry or a new Malibu? Camry. That little 1.6 in the Malibu seems overworked and I’ve already seen videos of them having massive blow by and basically grenadine themselves.
Would I trust a new Impala or a new Avalaon? Honestly, it’s a toss up. GM has improved a lot. But time will tell if it’s only temporary.
"RT" (rt-p)
01/03/2017 at 18:07, STARS: 0
I’d say American cars aren’t unreliable. Often dated, badly built or inefficiently designed - but they are usually robust enough not to give up on you.
But ‘imports’ is too general a statement. Japanese cars are not built like Italian cars, for example. ;P
"gmctavish needs more space" (gmctavish)
01/03/2017 at 18:14, STARS: 0
What about Swedish?
"Dash-doorhandle-6 cyl none the richer" (dash-doorhandle-and-bondo)
01/03/2017 at 19:34, STARS: 0
as a somewhat professional repairer of cars, I’ve found a few truths: German rust is inevitable and worse than it looks, same for japanese. But I never had to deal with Japanese cars with doors that don’t open, close, or the handle falls off, that’s an American thing.
"DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish!" (daft-ryosuke)
01/03/2017 at 19:47, STARS: 0
I do not believe in this myth.
Source: 220,000 mile Chevrolet Colorado.
"Amoore100" (amoore100)
01/03/2017 at 20:06, STARS: 1
Used to be just under Japanese (that is, for the old agricultural Volvos.) Saabs and new Volvos sit squarely next to the Germans, gyrating between the region from Americans to British.
"ranwhenparked" (ranwhenparked)
01/03/2017 at 20:14, STARS: 0
I’ve owned exclusively domestics for the past 11 years, and haven’t had any reliability issues. Just quality problems with Ford’s paint process, which is why I no longer own a Ford.
I did have a Cadillac that nickel and dimed me as it got older, but it was a decade old ex rental car with 125,000+ miles, so I don’t believe for a second that a full-size BMW or Mercedes would have held up any better under those circumstances.
"Pyrochazm" (pyrochazm)
01/03/2017 at 22:12, STARS: 0
No, I don’t believe that myth at all. It depends on the vehicle in question and what it’s being compared to. The worst car I ever owned was actually a Toyota, and the best was a Subaru. Most of the domestics I’ve owned have been pretty decent, with the exception of the SHO Taurus that had transmissions made from balsa wood.
"MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner" (montegoman562)
01/04/2017 at 10:07, STARS: 0
Like people have said it’s about the era.
My 07 Mercury Milan has been the most reliable vehicle I’ve ever owned and I am fast approaching 113k miles. *Knocks on wood vigorously*
My 04 Chevy Blazer was great and starting every time I turned the key. The heat went bad every winter and if I was keeping it I would’ve put in a new heater core instead of flushing it every year (god damn dexcool crap) and sensor after sensor went bad on it. 4.3L Vortec V6 was invincible though.