by "MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario)
Published 01/03/2017 at 12:45
by "MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario)
Published 01/03/2017 at 12:45
Tags: Electric Vehicles
STARS: 1
Hybrid pickups could be a great idea, it’s just the manufacturers are going about it all wrong. What they need to do is make an electric pickup (batteries under the bed and an electric motor at each drive wheel). Then you put a smaller engine/generator combo up front for range extension. Like what Nikola Motors is doing with semis.
Sounds like this company is heading that direction as well but with pickups.
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Hopefully Ford will too with it’s hybrid F150. Because if it’s just a traditional drive train with some batteries and motors grafted to it, it’s going to be a flop.
"nermal" (nermal)
01/03/2017 at 12:50, STARS: 1
No, they need to be diesel-electric hybrids.
The electric part is more efficient in stop-n-go driving, and the diesel part is more efficient in highway driving.
"Future next gen S2000 owner" (future-next-gen-s2000-owner)
01/03/2017 at 13:00, STARS: 1
Yes and no. Diesel electric yes, but a range extender style. Diesel engine runs at optimum efficiency at one rpm to recharge batteries, just like the Volt but a diesel instead.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
01/03/2017 at 13:00, STARS: 1
I’d be content with an electric 4wd system that can disconnect the rear wheels, either manually or automatically with an override. That way you get the best of everything. You get electric for stop-start city driving, you get the ICE efficiency on the highway. You get 4wd without a transfercase and associated parts, but traditional RWD to keep everyone happy. And you don’t have to give up dat sweet sweet V8 feeling/noise/sensation, though a diesel would be a better match.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
01/03/2017 at 13:02, STARS: 1
Thats going to be a helluva expensive truck then.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
01/03/2017 at 13:03, STARS: 0
I agree, though battery packaging is going to be tricker than putting them under the bed...that is unless you don’t need to carry anything in the bed anyway. Payloads are going to be crap.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
01/03/2017 at 13:07, STARS: 2
I disagree. It is absolutely necessary in heavy vehicle use, particularly fleet use, to have parts commonality and redundancy, and a vehicle with a hybrid plant/normal drivetrain offers that inline with “normal” drivetrains. A clean sheet hub motor hybrid would not. Nothing above a half-ton would work well in that schema, and there’s no point in having a half-ton with no commonality with other models either.
Plus which, under the bed? Perverse, I know, but you actually want as little unloaded weight in the rear as possible. If you have a battery skid in the back under the bed, you have all kinds of adverse behavior with a full payload because so very much weight is over the rear axle - plus, you have to dial up the capacity of the rear axle/springs.
Further complication for fleet use: towability and recovery. Further still, “range extension” based hybrid systems need infrastructure that for any customer doing anything route-based will be prohibitive.
If it seems like I’m honing in on fleet use, it’s for a reason - it has to be able to see fleet adoption because that’s one of the biggest interests for mileage improvement. The ordinary pickup owner Venn circle does not overlap with the hypermiler circle significantly enough to ignore fleet customers, and a theoretical best fit to that intersect which isn’t fleet-practical will. not. work.
"nermal" (nermal)
01/03/2017 at 13:17, STARS: 0
Taking the fleet perspective, it depends. Obviously every fleet is different.
Best case scenario would be fleets where the driver gets in their truck in the morning, then parks it at the same location at night. Think a UPS or Fedex delivery truck, driving < 1 tank of “fuel” per day, and refilled every night.
As long as the cost-per-mile math works out, hybrid trucks could make a huge impact on fleets.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
01/03/2017 at 13:21, STARS: 0
Oh, I don’t disagree. There are delivery fleets where it would make sense to keep ranges within a certain loop, or even to have midday/shift change vehicle swaps. In a lot of those cases, payload isn’t as much of a killer. I just see fewer limitations for the Most General Fleet Use with a more traditional drivetrain.
"MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario)
01/03/2017 at 13:24, STARS: 0
Interesting take on the fleet aspect. I would think it could be even better for fleets, sure your adopting a new technology, but that’s going to happen anyways. It’s not like there is a ton of parts commonality between a ‘90s F-series and a current generation one. Sure, it would be a big jump all at once instead of a more gradual change, but it happens anyways. Besides, an electric truck would most likely be easier to service. The drive train is much less complicated having much fewer moving parts than traditional transmissions and axles.
"MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario)
01/03/2017 at 13:26, STARS: 0
True, maybe not under the bed completely. A long narrow pack going from under the cab where the transmission would normally be to the front half of the bed maybe? That would help with avoiding payload issues somewhat.
"If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent" (essextee)
01/03/2017 at 13:28, STARS: 1
Batteries don’t like getting banged around. If you made a hybrid pickup it could never leave the road unless you installed some seriously heavy gauge skid plates over the battery pack.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
01/03/2017 at 13:31, STARS: 1
My take on parts commonality was more that a lot of fleets are going to want some traditional vehicles in their repertoire, because (a) unlimited range, and (b) likely to be cheaper. That makes it a plus to have some overlap. As to complication, traditional transmissions and axles are in a sense a “solved problem”. The required cycles to push big wheels are low, and the hub bearings/etc. etc. aren’t really substantially less reliable within typical service life than solid state would be. At least not to justify cost... yet.
"Probenja" (probenja)
01/03/2017 at 13:35, STARS: 1
As an example, in the UK the Peugeot 508 diesel hybrid is £5,000 more than the diesel equivalent, the Volvo V60 plug-in is £10,000 more than the diesel equivalent. So yes it would be probably even more expensive than that.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
01/03/2017 at 13:35, STARS: 0
considering our stricter diesel regs and increased scrutiny? yup
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
01/03/2017 at 14:03, STARS: 1
Sorry, range issues? Maybe im understanding this wrong, but he is talking about having a small engine up front at act as a generator, that runs on gas (or diesel), there by eliminating range issues?
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
01/03/2017 at 14:09, STARS: 0
Range extension=/= traditional hybrid was my point. Full load capacity in the range extender *and* substantial full electric range makes for a heavy, heavy, heavy vehicle (which cuts into ideal range and payload), and if they have to charge at home base *and* add gas on longer runs, it’s a hassle. Not a clear cut “this can’t run the routes” range issue, but several smaller ones that combine to be much more insidious.
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
01/03/2017 at 14:11, STARS: 0
Well, you could probably have a really small generator (think motorcycle engine) and only fill up if needed on a longer run. You have seen how big engine bays are and how heavy truck engines are right?
"TahoeSTi" (tahoesti)
01/03/2017 at 14:13, STARS: 0
No it’s a dumb idea. If you want a hybrid get a prius , if you want a truck get a truck, if you need both buy both used not new.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
01/03/2017 at 14:25, STARS: 1
The trouble with that solution is this: the system has to be able to support the full operating capacity of the truck. You *could* operate range extension on a smaller basis (e.g. 500 amps in, 1000 amps out) to delay the depletion of the battery, but that still espouses a situation in which the truck can fill up
and still not be able to do anything more than limp home.
There is an alternative to this, and that is to have a range extender which is very high output. High tune. It can be smaller and still put out enough to get the truck home with a full load. Herein lies the problem: that higher output has its costs. The primary reasons for the truck engine to be so big and heavy are ruggedness, (primary) simplicity, cost, and durability. The little high-output engine probably won’t be clocking as many hours, but will be making them count by operating closer to its margins.
At some point, the range extender reaches a critical sacrifice mass of all of those things to be viable, and the question becomes why you wouldn’t just have it coupled to the wheels and not try to kill yourself with onboard capacity and the infrastructure it requires. I.e., you’re back with a traditional hybrid.
"Manwich - now Keto-Friendly" (manwich)
01/03/2017 at 14:40, STARS: 0
“Well, you could probably have a really small generator (think motorcycle engine)“
I would think they would use the Ecoboost 1.0L or Ecoboost 1.5L... or a regular 4 cyl in the 2L to 2.5L range.
"Manwich - now Keto-Friendly" (manwich)
01/03/2017 at 14:46, STARS: 0
In theory, definitely yes. In reality, maybe yes, maybe no. And I say that mainly due to cost and the complexity of diesel emissions... plus the complexity of the hybrid electric powertrain.
Fuel would have to become much more expensive (Euro-style fuel prices) for diesel-electric to be worthwhile.
"Manwich - now Keto-Friendly" (manwich)
01/03/2017 at 14:48, STARS: 2
Why not both?
"MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario)
01/03/2017 at 15:01, STARS: 0
You understand that electric motors are perfectly suited to what trucks need, right? 100% torque at 0 RPM and linear power. In fact the biggest trucks in the world are electric drive.
http://www.komatsuamerica.com/our-company/press-releases/2016-09-15-980e-4
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BelAZ_75710
http://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/off-highway-trucks/mining-trucks/18232553.html
And adding a battery pack to improve fuel economy and drive-ability just makes sense in a small vehicle like a pickup
"TahoeSTi" (tahoesti)
01/03/2017 at 17:33, STARS: 1
you understand that batteries suck right? Give me a hydrogen truck and bam best of all worlds....big trucks of all times don’t go very fast either.
"TahoeSTi" (tahoesti)
01/03/2017 at 17:34, STARS: 0
You found a prius I would hoon.
"MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario)
01/03/2017 at 17:38, STARS: 0
Trucks aren’t designed for speed though. And while batteries suck right now they we’ll keep getting better.
"TahoeSTi" (tahoesti)
01/03/2017 at 17:42, STARS: 0
They still have to go 75mph. the big all-electric dump trucks barely do 15mph.
"MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario)
01/03/2017 at 18:28, STARS: 0
Those big dump trucks can do 40mph when empty and 25-30 loaded on flat ground
"TahoeSTi" (tahoesti)
01/03/2017 at 19:38, STARS: 0
So they still can’t get up to highway speed....doesn’t sound like a practical truck to drive to home depot....or to tow a car to the track.