by "sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
Published 12/22/2014 at 19:08
by "sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
Published 12/22/2014 at 19:08
No Tags
STARS: 3
So, Oppo, do you agree or disagree with that title for any of these cars? They have been divided up into categories based on the reasons for their terribleness.
Note: This is only about 1/3 of the cars in the book. I omitted the other 2/3 because there was no question as to whether or not they were crap.
Build Quality (Good idea, poor execution):
Alfa Romeo Alfasud
Aston Martin Lagonda
Chevy Caprice (3rd generation)
Chevy Nova (1970-'79, non-V8 models)
Datsun 120Y
Jensen-Healey
Lancia Dedra
Lotus Eclat/Elite
Mazda 626 Montrose
Peugeot 604
Renault Fuego
Rover SD1
Triumph Stag
Bad Design:
AMC Gremlin & Pacer
Austin 3 Litre
Cadillac Seville SLS/STS (5th generation)
Chevrolet Corvair
Chrysler Airflow
Citroën GS Birotor
Fiat Multipla
Ford Consul Capri
Jaguar XJ40
Lamborghini Espada
Lexus SC430
Pontaic Aztek
Renault Avantime
Volvo 262C
Financial Failures:
AC 3000ME
Bricklin SV-1
Bugatti Type 41 Royale
Chrysler Turbine
DeLorean DMC-12
Ford Explorer (1st and 2nd generation)
Iso Fidia
Lancia Gamma
Leyland P76
Mazda Cosmo 110S
NSU RO80
Rolls-Royce Camargue
Studebaker Avanti
Subaru SVX
Tucker Torpedo
Bad Badge Engineering:
Porsche Cayenne
The Rest:
Alfa Romeo 6
AMC Eagle Wagon
Datsun Cedric
Maserati Quattroporte III
Matra Rancho
Nash Metropolitan
Oldsmobile Toronado
Toyota Crown
"norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback" (norskracer98)
12/22/2014 at 19:13, STARS: 3
One does not simply car a Corvair a bad design.
"Vicente Esteve" (vicente-esteve)
12/22/2014 at 19:17, STARS: 1
Porshe Cayenne bad badge enginering?!
Its quite possibly the BEST badge engineerd vehicle. It retains the soldity of the Touareg and its off-road prowess whilst having the Porsche magic that makes it drive amazingly for an SUV.
"tapzz" (tapzz)
12/22/2014 at 19:18, STARS: 6
What's so good about the idea, and so bad about the execution?
A Caprice is what it is, I'd have thought: a traditional land yacht made to acceptable, if not stellar, standards.
"Logansteno: Bought a VW?" (logansteno)
12/22/2014 at 19:18, STARS: 7
Whoever wrote this book should be smacked. Multiple times. I actually out loud said "What the hell" to a few of these.
"tapzz" (tapzz)
12/22/2014 at 19:19, STARS: 1
Those I6s seem to have gotten groceries to many people's satisfaction- don't see the poor execution.
Same for the Datsun 120Y below
"tapzz" (tapzz)
12/22/2014 at 19:20, STARS: 1
Wrong way 'round: bad idea, decent execution.
"Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero" (sampsonite24)
12/22/2014 at 19:21, STARS: 1
call me crazy but I always loved the espada
"505Turbeaux" (505turbeaux)
12/22/2014 at 19:21, STARS: 5
These assholes watch too much TV and spend not enough time driving shitty cars
"lone_liberal" (token-liberal)
12/22/2014 at 19:21, STARS: 2
I'm not sure why the Nova would be on the list but not the Monza, Vega or Citation.
"tapzz" (tapzz)
12/22/2014 at 19:21, STARS: 2
These were good full sizers / quasi execs back in their day. Nothing wrong with the idea or the execution.
"tapzz" (tapzz)
12/22/2014 at 19:22, STARS: 1
Don't care much for the concept, but the design was really good, IMHO.
"tapzz" (tapzz)
12/22/2014 at 19:23, STARS: 1
Waaaaat?
You can argue that many things are wrong with a Corvair, but bad design is not one of them.
"tapzz" (tapzz)
12/22/2014 at 19:24, STARS: 4
This was pretty good design for the era. Do they mean 'bad engineering', because the birotor wasn't a great success, even if the conventionally engined GSs were.
"tapzz" (tapzz)
12/22/2014 at 19:25, STARS: 3
A masterstroke of Chutzpah is not bad design.
"tapzz" (tapzz)
12/22/2014 at 19:25, STARS: 5
Polarising != bad
"tapzz" (tapzz)
12/22/2014 at 19:26, STARS: 4
Not a production model. Chrysler never expected to make any money on these.
"tapzz" (tapzz)
12/22/2014 at 19:27, STARS: 3
Really? I thought that Ford sold so many, even the tyre mishap couldn't ruin the profits.
"tapzz" (tapzz)
12/22/2014 at 19:27, STARS: 4
Can't really blame the car for the demise of Tucker...
"tapzz" (tapzz)
12/22/2014 at 19:30, STARS: 1
In their various guises, these have practically been the foundation Toyota was built on. Really don't see what's bad about them.
Well, other than that they're a bit chintzy for my taste...
"T5Killer" (t5killer)
12/22/2014 at 19:31, STARS: 1
My mom daily drove a '99 2door for the last 15 years it has been a great little SUV. It is a bit gas hungry but not bad.
"thebigbossyboss" (thebigbossyboss)
12/22/2014 at 19:31, STARS: 1
YUUUUUUP. The car dat killed caddy.
"thebigbossyboss" (thebigbossyboss)
12/22/2014 at 19:32, STARS: 3
Makes Aztek look good.
"thebigbossyboss" (thebigbossyboss)
12/22/2014 at 19:33, STARS: 3
How on earth was the explorer a failure? They sold about eleventy billion.
"T5Killer" (t5killer)
12/22/2014 at 19:33, STARS: 1
Kinda shocked the Mustang II isn't on this list. Its the go to for lazy "worst" car lists for folks who don't understand its historical context.
"Hahayoustupidludditeshutupandgohandcrankyourmodeltalready" (hahayoustupidludditeshutupandgohandcrankyourmodeltalready)
12/22/2014 at 19:39, STARS: 2
1 Alfasud: Agree.
2 Lagonda: Agree.
3 Caprice 3G: Agree, though I am not particularly informed about it.
4 Nova: Agree.
5 Datsun 120Y: I do not know.
6 Jensen-Healey: Disagree, at least for the category it is in.
7 Lancia Dedra: Disagree, at least for category.
8 Lotus Eclat/Elite: Disagree.
9 Mazda 626 Montrose: Disagree.
10 Peugeot 604: Disagree.
11 Renault Fuego: Disagree.
12 Rover SD1: Disagree.
13 Triumph Stag: Disagree.
14 AMC Gremlin and Pacer: Agree*
15 Austin 3 Litre: Disagree.
16 Cadillac Seville/STS: Agree.
17 Corvair: Disagree.
18 Chrysler Airflow: Disagree.
19 Citroën GS Birotor: Disagree.
20 Fiat Multipla: Agree**
21 Ford Consul Capri: Disagree.
22 Jaguar XJ40: Disagree.
23 Lamborghini Espada: Disagree.
24 Lexus SC430: Disagree.
25 Pontiac Aztek: Agree**
26 Renault Avantime: Disagree.
27 Volvo 262C: Disagree.
28 AC 3000ME: Agree.
29 Bricklin SV1: Agree.
30 Bugatti Type 41 Royale: Agree.
31 Chrysler Turbine: Disagree.
32 DeLorean: Agree.
33 Ford Explorer(1/2G): Disagree.
34 Iso Fidia: Agree.
35 Lancia Gamma: Agree.
36 Leyland P76: Agree.
37 Mazda Cosmo 110S: Disagree.
38 NSU Ro80: Disagree.
39 Rolls-Royce Carmargue: Disagree.
40 Studebaker Avanti: Disagree.
41 Subaru SVX: Disagree.
42 Tucker Torpedo 48: Disagree.
43 Porsche Cayenne: Disagree.
44 Alfa Romeo 6: Disagree.
45 AMC Eagle Wagon: Disagree.
46 Datsun Cedric: Disagree.
47 Quattroporte III: Disagree.
48 Matra Rancho: Disagree.
49 Nash Metropolitan: Disagree.
50 Olds Toronado: Disagree.
51 Toyota Crown: Disagree.
"TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts." (thebloody)
12/22/2014 at 19:41, STARS: 4
This list looks like it was written by someone with no idea about cars and just grab random cars off car blogs. Smh.
"davedave1111" (davedave1111)
12/22/2014 at 19:47, STARS: 1
That list is so dumb it puts Gawker top tens to shame.
"Decay buys too many beaters" (decay)
12/22/2014 at 19:47, STARS: 2
Disagree strongly with Corvair.
"BaconSandwich is tasty." (baconsandwich)
12/22/2014 at 19:53, STARS: 0
Same. I suspect it could be quite a classic in a number of years.
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
12/22/2014 at 20:11, STARS: 0
It kind of tended to spin off the road.
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
12/22/2014 at 20:13, STARS: 1
"But it's not a real Porsche!"
-The author.
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
12/22/2014 at 20:15, STARS: 0
No idea.
"Apex Assassin" (apexassassin)
12/22/2014 at 20:17, STARS: 0
Hey the SVX was badass and the Corvair was and is a great engineering feat! Plus their engines are great for frankenstein wheel-standing vw beetles!
No Chevy Aveo? Prius? Everything from Skoda, Chery/Qoros, Dongfang, Haima, etc
"TheVancen- In Pursuit of a Greater Payday and Car Parts" (the-vancen)
12/22/2014 at 20:19, STARS: 2
I completely agree. The Cosmo? Bricklin? Turbine!? I am a tolerant man. But come on.
"Otto-the-Croatian-'Whoops my Volvo is a sedan'" (otto-the-croatian)
12/22/2014 at 20:53, STARS: 2
Haha, while the BMW i8 looks like it's shitting out a 911, this looks like it's eating an MR2!
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
12/22/2014 at 20:59, STARS: 0
I left out 2/3 of the cars because they were undoubtedly crap. But yeah, it's dumb.
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
12/22/2014 at 21:00, STARS: 0
Apparently they drank motor oil.
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
12/22/2014 at 21:03, STARS: 0
So have I.
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
12/22/2014 at 21:04, STARS: 0
All three of those are. I left out 2/3 of the cars because they were undisputed shit.
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
12/22/2014 at 21:08, STARS: 0
Yes
"carcrasher88" (carcrasher88)
12/22/2014 at 21:09, STARS: 2
Eh, personally I think the Cayenne is a great example of badge engineering.
They took the less sporty and more utilitarian Touraeg/Q7 platform and turned it into a machine that at least somewhat lives up to the reputation of Porsche performance and capability.
"carcrasher88" (carcrasher88)
12/22/2014 at 21:11, STARS: 3
I really don't see why the Eagle is here.
One, it started the trend of crossover utility vehicles and more off the pavement capable wagons.
Two, it's not the reason for the demise of AMC. In fact, it was the last actual AMC to survive before the marque disappeared.
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
12/22/2014 at 21:11, STARS: 0
Exactly
"carcrasher88" (carcrasher88)
12/22/2014 at 21:13, STARS: 1
Meh, ignore the naysayers. The Toronado was a great car, even if it was FWD.
"El Rivinado" (joeman856)
12/22/2014 at 21:14, STARS: 3
This list sucks, I read it one time at a barnes and noble and as soon as I saw the Toronado on their I was just like, "This asswipe's been sniffing glue" Put it down and never picked it up again.
"lone_liberal" (token-liberal)
12/22/2014 at 21:14, STARS: 0
Makes sense, and the three I mentioned were definitely undisputed shit.
"norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback" (norskracer98)
12/22/2014 at 21:28, STARS: 0
It's still a beautiful car. They fixed most of the issues after 64 I believe anyway.
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
12/22/2014 at 21:30, STARS: 0
It was on the list, but I didn't bother including it because it's an obvious candidate. I left off 2/3 of the cars in the book because they actually sucked.
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
12/22/2014 at 21:36, STARS: 0
The cars you mentioned below (minus the Prius, which is just boring) are in the book. See the note I added at the top.
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
12/22/2014 at 21:48, STARS: 0
Exactly.
"SirRaoulDuke" (sirraoulduke)
12/22/2014 at 22:19, STARS: 0
Those are fine cars for what they were: affordable, reliable, with a hint of luxury.
"" (bignslow)
12/22/2014 at 23:11, STARS: 1
Caprice has bad build quality? Those cars are bulletproof tanks, much like the Panther platform. GM made a killing on these in the 80's. They were all over the place. Cruisers, cabs, etc.
"" (bignslow)
12/22/2014 at 23:13, STARS: 0
I didn't think the STS was that bad. They were decent when they were new and were meant to compete with a 5 series. Northstar was a good engine. Sure, used ones are garbage.
"gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee" (gogmorgo)
12/22/2014 at 23:13, STARS: 1
I've seen a couple books titled similarly, mostly on the clearance shelves of bookstores. As a general rule, they were written by someone who didn't seem to know much about cars beyond whether or not someone somewhere had talked trash about them in some circle and/or stereotypes. Basically a bunch of pages filled with exploding Pintos and the like — the point of the last sentence being lost if you're unaware the Pinto was no worse than any of its contemporary automobiles.
"Jobjoris" (Jobjoris)
12/23/2014 at 03:15, STARS: 0
If there's one car that deserves to be on this list this is it: Citroën ended up buying all these back from their customers because it's engine was one big failure. Seriously.
"tapzz" (tapzz)
12/23/2014 at 05:50, STARS: 1
Well, it's under the heading of "Bad Design", and Robert Opron's design for the GS generally is very good, IMHO.
The engineering of the birotor is a different matter: that really should come under the "Good Idea, Bad Execution" heading.
"Jobjoris" (Jobjoris)
12/23/2014 at 07:35, STARS: 1
The engine was (very) poorly designed ;-)
If it's just the Opron body there would not be differentiated with that Birotor-part I guess. There's nothing wrong with an XJ40, Espada, Avantime or Consul Capri as well when it just comes to esthetics IMHO.
"Vicente Esteve" (vicente-esteve)
12/23/2014 at 10:38, STARS: 2
I will find that author and smack him with the options list brochure. (It will probably knock him unconscious)
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
12/23/2014 at 13:16, STARS: 1
Ok, but if that's the case why fault the chassis? The 230 was in a lot more than just the Nova.
"Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW." (aya-yu)
12/23/2014 at 13:18, STARS: 1
That's my favourite minivan ever :(
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
12/23/2014 at 14:17, STARS: 0
If you can physically pick it up.
"SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie" (sidewaysondirt)
12/23/2014 at 15:05, STARS: 1
I'd hoon, well, a bunch of them.
"Vicente Esteve" (vicente-esteve)
12/23/2014 at 15:39, STARS: 2
Shit thats a good point.
*Thinks*
"edu-petrolhead" (edu-petrolhead)
12/23/2014 at 16:07, STARS: 1
How the Bugatti Royale is in this list as a financial failure if Ettore Bugatti himself asked the richest persons in the world if they wanted this car?
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
12/24/2014 at 01:01, STARS: 0
I have no clue. The guy who wrote this book is entitled to his opinions, but most of his opinions suck.
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
12/24/2014 at 01:02, STARS: 0
I don't think these were anywhere near "Worst car ever" levels, but I also doubt a ton of people under the age of 60 bought this over a 5-series, especially a V8 5-Series.
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
12/24/2014 at 01:03, STARS: 0
Three, it's awesome.
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
12/24/2014 at 01:06, STARS: 0
That's true. But facts are not relevant to this book, for some reason.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
12/24/2014 at 08:44, STARS: 1
I am really taking issue with the fact that his opinions are uninformed. If the Nova is up there, the Camaro should be too. And maybe the Chevelle.
"pip bip - choose Corrour" (hhgttg69)
12/26/2014 at 05:45, STARS: 1
not a 120Y , thats a 1200
"pip bip - choose Corrour" (hhgttg69)
12/26/2014 at 05:45, STARS: 0
please explain why these are bad
"pip bip - choose Corrour" (hhgttg69)
12/26/2014 at 05:46, STARS: 1
Rover , enough said
"pip bip - choose Corrour" (hhgttg69)
12/26/2014 at 05:48, STARS: 1
i agree with them on this shitter
"pip bip - choose Corrour" (hhgttg69)
12/26/2014 at 05:48, STARS: 2
i'd love one of these!
"pip bip - choose Corrour" (hhgttg69)
12/26/2014 at 05:49, STARS: 1
yep!
"pip bip - choose Corrour" (hhgttg69)
12/26/2014 at 05:49, STARS: 2
WANT!
"pip bip - choose Corrour" (hhgttg69)
12/26/2014 at 05:50, STARS: 0
i disagree
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
12/26/2014 at 10:35, STARS: 0
I have no idea.
"PS9" (PS9)
02/09/2017 at 18:11, STARS: 2
Whoever wrote this book can eat a bag of easy D.
"Under_Score" (tomtheatum)
02/09/2017 at 18:11, STARS: 1
I saw this a month ago. I’d seen it around before but never got a pic.
"Honeybunchesofgoats" (honeybunche0fgoats)
02/09/2017 at 18:12, STARS: 1
Lots of nonsense in the bad design section.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
02/09/2017 at 18:14, STARS: 1
Growing up, we had a ‘70 Nova with the 250. It was a damn good car, actually - and the body was light enough that the 6 could get you going - unlike some of the other pigs that engine was dropped in. The book author is clueless, obviously.
"dogisbadob" (dogisbadob)
02/09/2017 at 18:17, STARS: 1
Yes the Lagonda is awful! What a piece of shit!
The Eclat/Elite and Espada are fucking awesome!
"Mid Engine" (jdlogan2006)
02/09/2017 at 18:19, STARS: 1
Wanted this in the worst way, but couldn’t afford one
settled for a Renault Encore, the most reliable car I’ve owned
"Maxima Speed" (maximaspeed)
02/09/2017 at 18:21, STARS: 1
Remove the following immediately per court order: Porsche Cayenne, Datsun Cedric, AMC Eagle Wagon, Nash Metropolitan.
"e36Jeff now drives a ZHP" (e36jeff)
02/09/2017 at 18:22, STARS: 0
Well, it’s listed under bad design, and the ford/firestone crisis did kill 240 people and severely injure another 3k due to bad design of the explorers suspension and poor design of firestone tires. Seems like it should fall under poor design to me.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
02/09/2017 at 18:26, STARS: 1
So many cars on the bad design list I’d love to own and drive. Good thing I’m not an expert. I clearly don’t have what it takes.
"ZHP Sparky, the 5th" (e30s2k)
02/09/2017 at 18:28, STARS: 1
I’m going to put that book in a book called “world’s worst books”.
"feather-throttle-not-hair" (feather-throttle-not-hair)
02/09/2017 at 18:31, STARS: 1
I’ve raced against a few of these in Lemons.
"Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap" (ddadragon)
02/09/2017 at 18:42, STARS: 1
IF this is the book that’s at Books a Million, then I believe the AMphicar is in it as well.
"Babz" (Babz03)
02/09/2017 at 18:46, STARS: 2
I would actually love to own about 85% of this list.
"My citroen won't start" (lucasboechat)
02/09/2017 at 18:53, STARS: 1
most of my favourite cars are in this list.
"gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee" (gogmorgo)
02/09/2017 at 18:55, STARS: 1
I think I may possess this book. It introduced me to a whole whack of Eastern Bloc cars that I very obviously now want.
"IanZ - limited-slip indifferential" (ianz-limited)
02/09/2017 at 18:55, STARS: 1
They lost me at the Avantime. Also several times before that and several times after.
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
02/09/2017 at 18:59, STARS: 0
Might’ve been.
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
02/09/2017 at 18:59, STARS: 0
Same
"Your boy, BJR" (jerseyshoreben)
02/09/2017 at 19:22, STARS: 1
Corvair, airflow, Espada, Royale, turbine, avanti, tucker, should be exempt.
The author should be shot for including the toronado.
"Junkrat aka Rick Sanchez: Fury Road Edition" (realasabass)
02/09/2017 at 20:35, STARS: 1
Yeah that 626 is pretty hawt. I guess they rot into the ground pretty readily. That and they were really slow.
"dtg11 - is probably on an adventure with Clifford" (dtg11)
02/09/2017 at 21:15, STARS: 0
I don’t know who the heck said the Espada is an ugly car but I’m gonna go kill them.
Really, I wouldn’t want to own most on the cars on this list, but I love almost all of them.
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
02/09/2017 at 22:21, STARS: 1
Please, borrow my hatchet.