Make Sure The Buyer Titles That Car - The Podcast

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
12/31/2015 at 09:00 • Filed to: None

7 74

You sell your car and the buyer drives off in it. When they don’t title it in their name bad things happen. And despite how easy this is to avoid, many people still allow it to happen. It is this week’s podcast topic.

I get a surprising number of calls on this at my office and the only thing that ever changes is the bad result. The results are always bad, they are just bad in different ways.

The buyer of the car drives it for a while and then abandons it when it breaks down. The buyer of the car skips the title to someone else who is pissed off and wants to sue the seller but they can only find your name on the title. The buyer gets in an accident with the car and the victims want to sue the “owner” of the car who has the deepest pockets.

Yet, everytime I mention this topic I get a ream of comments from people who tell me they have sold cars without doing this and nothing bad has ever happened as a result. I also hear from the car-flippers who tell me they wouldn’t let the seller “force” them to re-title the car because those pesky taxes would cut into their profit margins.

And of course, there are a couple of states that allow the seller to go online and file something to indicate that the car has been sold. But what happens if the buyer doesn’t follow through - and then goes on to do one of the “bad” things described above?

So, I explain it all in this week’s podcast. Here is the audio:

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This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

fourvalleys > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

3

Great, great topic. When I sold my car in Florida, I had several people tell me to just disregard the “Notice of Sale” paperwork. I had a couple others that were insistent that I absolutely, 100% needed to do it. It was only a few lines, and it took almost no time. Definitely worth the peace of mind!

Flavien Vidal > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

6

The way it’s done in France is that the seller sends a receipt of its registration with the new owner’s adress and contact. Up to the new owner to re-register it or not after (if it doesn’t get back on the road, there is no need), but at least the government does know that the seller does not own the car anymore.

As sonmeone who buys cars in Europe for export purposes, I personnally, sign all the papers with my french address, then temporarily insure the car with its old plates and drive it out of the country, to the UK where it ships to Japan. Perfectly legal and no risks for the past owner if anything happens to me while I drive the car out of the country.

icanneverremembermyburnercode > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

1

I notarized I ton of titles at my work. Because of your coverage on this topic I always tell sellers to follow the buyer to the bmv and make sure they get it titled.

Hollywood Speed: I don't know what I'm doing > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

3

Being the shambled state of South Carolina, I have a feeling I have 20 cars in fields all around the country with my name still on the title. I understand the purpose of the discussion. It’s to remove liability. Unfortunately here in Carolina people have open titles everywhere. I haven’t sold a titled but not tagged car in a while. Every time I sell I notify my insurance company it’s sold, the name of the guy, and then I turn the tag in and say it was sold. I also hold a bill of sale and information of who I sold the cars too just in case.

Oldcabbagehead > Flavien Vidal 12/31/2015 at 09:00

1

I just sold 2 cars in South Carolina this year, there is a simple form on the DMV website that you send in notifying the DMV the vehicle has been sold and the buyer's signature and address is on the form. You keep a copy and can also request a receipt from the DMV. I feel like most states would have this form if people simply looked for it.

LodestarRunner > Flavien Vidal 12/31/2015 at 09:00

0

I imported two E30 Tourings from the UK (still own one), and the seller over there has to send a letter to the DVLA indicating the car was sold abroad. I do not know if the sellers have actually done so, but they will face penalties if they have not.

High Road > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

4

I sold a ‘78 Sirocco to a “friend” who put a cheap aftermarket header on it and then drove it across the country. I got a letter 2 months later from a tow company looking to collect a few hundred bucks for towing “my” burned out hulk off the freeway in Forth Worth Texas, (I was in Seattle). I didn’t respond, but I learned a valuable lesson.

Have Jeep, will travel. > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

1

Yup. While you can’t physically hold a gun to their heads and make them march to the DMV, I have always had good luck filling out the “release of liability” form. I like having them sign and initial it also, along with the date of transaction AND the time of transaction. I then send the release of liability to the DMV right away. It has saved me from toll road tickets in the mail, registration delinquency notices. While I’ve never had anything bad happen, a friend of mine sold his S Class that showed up totaled and abandoned 6 months later. Lucky he kept the information of who he sold it to for the cops.

Slay0r > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

2

I know every state is different, but here in Louisiana you can do a “notice vehicle transfer” on the Office of Motor Vehicle’s website. I feared something similar may happen to me or the person I sold my bike to would instantly crash it. So as I got home from the transaction I went to the OMW website and did the “Notice of vehicle transfer.” It will ask for the VIN, lic plate, who you sold it too (name and address) and the amount. Just doing that (along with signing the back of the title as the seller should release you from liability going forward. In the state of Louisiana the back of the title serves as the bill of sale. So once it is filled out, either make a copy or take a picture. :)

Redlobster > icanneverremembermyburnercode 12/31/2015 at 09:00

0

Completely unrealistic expectations, follow the person the to dmv and make sure they title it? Have you been to a DMV recently? Last time I went , I spent 4 hours waiting to register my car and I used to work at the DMV and have probably owned and tagged over 60 cars in the last 5 years. Not to mention I don’t want some random stranger following me around making sure I complete a transaction.

ateamfan42 > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

0

Any suggestions on a generic “release of liabilty” or “notice of sale” template to use to inform the state for those states that don’t have a standard form for this?

Steve’s suggestion to go to the DMV/BMV with the buyer to have the car immediately re-titled is a good one, but there are number of reasons that might be a challenge in some circumstances:

- nearest DMV is hundreds of miles away from where the sale is taking place

- buyer doesn’t have enough extra money on them to pay the sales tax + excise tax + registration fees at the time of the sale

- buyer is from another state and won’t be titling/registering the car in the seller’s state

In examples like those, notifying the state of the sale is probably the best action the seller can reasonably take.

SteveLehto > ateamfan42 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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And some states might not accept your homemade form. In Michigan, they’d ask why you didn’t bring the buyer in to the DMV like they suggest.

ateamfan42 > Slay0r 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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along with signing the back of the title as the seller should release you from liability going forward

This is a good point, and additional evidence that the transaction took place. Next time I sell a car, I’m going to make a copy of the completed title for my records.

My bird IS the word > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

2

I always thought it was standard practice to finalize the sale at a title place, so you can get plates. Sales tax sucks but lawsuits are worse

10001010 > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

2

I just take the license plates off the car before I sell it. I’m not 100% sure of the legality but it definitely forces the buyer to register the vehicle.

SteveLehto > 10001010 12/31/2015 at 09:00

3

Unless they slap the wrong plate on it - like one they stole. The odds are slim, but that’s the kind of thing people call me with.

velvet fog > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

1

Couldn’t agree more - this is one instance where a) being trusting and/or b) being lazy, can have terrible consequences. I’ve been guilty of both but have luckily had no problems. Here in British Columbia there is no excuse. We have a single government-run insurance company that handles all vehicle title transfers and basic mandatory insurance. A title transfer can be done at any insurance agent in minutes, but I have never bothered to go with a buyer to get my copy of the transfer paper stamped.

But a couple of years ago my son sold his first beater car the lazy way and a few months later had the RCMP at his door. The buyers had been stopped with stolen plates on the car and, as my son was still the registered owner, they wondered if the car was stolen too. The buyers got charged with driving without insurance and stolen plates, and the cop told my son that since the car was still legally his, he was free to claim it at the impound lot. My son said he’d already been paid for it and was glad to be rid of it, so the towing company sold it for scrap.

Lesson learned for my son and I. I’ll be selling a beater in the new year and you can bet I’ll be going the two blocks to the nearest insurance agent with the buyer to get the sale registered. That small inconvenience is nothing compared to the major worst-case scenario that could be waiting for me down the road.

As always, thanks for the sound advice.

icanneverremembermyburnercode > Redlobster 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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Nah, the bmv is two blocks away, if they can’t meet there or just drive over behind eachother then that’s just pure laziness. Plus Ohio actually has pretty good BMV’s. I've never spent more than ten minutes in the one I'm referring to. If people can't make time to do something as important as ensuring they are no longer responsible for the car they just sold, then they deserve what the get.

JaggerTheDog > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

1

At least the brakes were standard.

TXNIL > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

2

benn454 > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

3

Inflation, you cruel mistress.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Flavien Vidal 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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I figured there was a form that would need to be filled out at the Préfecture of the Département. In France, that is almost always the case.

TXNIL > JaggerTheDog 12/31/2015 at 09:00

2

“Power steer and brakes” = power steering and power brakes.

Power-assisted brakes were optional on many cars of that vintage - my 69 Road Runner doesn’t have them, for instance.

Naughty0ne2Pointoh > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

2

I had this happen to me.

They bought the car, drove it for a while without titling or registering it, grenades the motor, and left it on the side of the road.

Police showed up at my door. I hadn’t done the paperwork. However, I could offer a lot of details about the sale.

Short story short, the police said “OK” and left.

Gjergjetta > LodestarRunner 12/31/2015 at 09:00

0

Just out of curiosity, Is one of them diamondschwartz? Sorry, seems random but I’m in the tristate area and I’ve been looking at some over the last few months. I’m supposed to go see an ‘89 lhd diamondschwartz Monday in jersey.

Mosca > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

3

Every now and then I get a customer trying to trade a car that he bought a year ago, or more, and the title is signed by the old owner but it was never transferred to the new owner. The look of incomprehension as I try to explain that it isn’t his car is very frustrating.

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

2

IMO car flippers are the ones most likely to get caught up in this - in Washington, if your car is towed; the tow company can (and will) send the registered owner a bill for the cost of towing and storage.

I buy, most times fix, then sell a lot of cars - and there have been several times when I’ve shown the seller how to go online (DOL.WA.GOV) and report the sale. Sure it means that I now have 15 days to register or pay the $100 penalty for not - if it’s a car going to scrap anyway, who cares? but here’s the rub. Say I’m flipping cars quickly (not what I do, but hypothetically), the seller has avowed responsibility by reporting the sale, I fix the car and sell it. The guy who buys it can a) registers it more then 15 days from the sale - but won’t pay the penalty because he’ll have a bill of sale from me for the more recent sale; or b) runs the car into a pole and walks away... in both cases, the seller isn’t responsible and no penalty is paid.

Which brings me to your second point... taxes. Many sellers offer to write a lesser amount for the sale of the car so that the person saves taxes. Don’t do it. While the DOL is easy to “game”, the DOR (dept. of revenue) are rat bastards. If the DOL (happens a lot) tries to force higher-tax-based-upon-stupid-value, pay it and appeal it. However, the DOR can and will go after ridiculously small amounts of money simply because it’s what they do. The bonus is, while you likely won’t go to jail for the title deal described above (as it’s an area not expressly forbidden); you likely will go to jail for tax evasion and will (if they catch you) pay huge fines for not paying the right amount.

And a shout-out for my fellow attorneys in Washington - if you do get a ridiculous fee/tax attached to your registration; there is a hearings process to address it. See your local attorney for how you can do it... the best part of that is that those snotty, independent DOL stations (who wrote the wrong value) get in all manner of trouble when they mis-value a vehicle...

m4ximusprim3 > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

3

I sold a car once in college and the buyer never titled it. However, it actually worked out in my favor because for some unknown reason he abandoned it in great shape. I got a notice from the city saying my car was at the impound lot and that it would be sold or destroyed or something if I didn’t bail it out. I tried to contact the guy and he was gone- cell phone disconnected, email returned, etc. Just gone.

I went down, paid a couple hundred bucks to bail it out, got a new title from DMV, and sold it again. Easy money.

Probably not totally legal and all, but seeing as it was still titled in my name and the guy was nowhere to be found, I figured it was safe enough.

10001010 > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

2

Texas also has the Notice of Transfer form which I submit, along with photos of the signed title, bill of sale, the buyer, and his ID. Though there is the chance that my Tacoma is now hauling contraband in Mexico or terrorists in Iraq.

JaggerTheDog > TXNIL 12/31/2015 at 09:00

0

Thanks for taking the fun out of it. :-/

il buono > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

1

Great topic. I always look forward to your podcast and this one was very informative. I decided to take a screenshot of what Arizona’s DOT requires. Take the license plate off!

chevelle.chris > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

1

Steve,

Doesn’t Michigan allow for the buyer of a car to drive an un-plated vehicle home or to the SoS IF they have the title showing the recent transaction in their possession?

SteveLehto > chevelle.chris 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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Not that I’m aware of. Technically, you are supposed to plate it before you drive it.

Cronus > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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I'd tell them there's no way I'm waiting 3 hours at the SOS. If they had their shit together it would be different. Also, it's not like the SOS is open on evenings and weekends when these transactions are taking place. I just keep a copy of the filled out title.

LodestarRunner > Gjergjetta 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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No, that’s Matt’s car and it’s much nicer than mine. I’d buy it if I had the money. Both of mine have been RHD Alpinweiss cars. My first one is now in PA.

Flavien Vidal > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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Yep, that is the form that the seller sends. Only thing the buyer has to to do is re-register it under his name, sending out his side of the old carte grise to the prefecture.

LegsMalone > chevelle.chris 12/31/2015 at 09:00

1

That’s certainly not the case in Illinois. I rolled the dice by driving a fresh purchase home with no plates and got pulled over by a state trooper. I had the title and bill of sale on me of course and he let me go. But not before telling me that you have to get plages first. So what, drive out to the seller, give him money. Take the title back to the county in which you’re registering, get plates,drive back to seller, get car, drive home. I’ll take my chances.

Note: I think it helped that the trooper really liked my car.

ateamfan42 > LegsMalone 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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Sadly, in most states, the system does not make for an easy private sale. In some states, dealers can provide temporary tags so you can drive your purchase home and then register it in 15 days.

For private sales, you either must conduct the transaction, go register the car, then come back with plates to drive the car home; tow the unregistered car home; or get something like a transit plate before hand to bring with you to the purchase. The transit plates are good for a one-way trip, require insurance first, and cost an extra fee.

ateamfan42 > benn454 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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Inflation, plus massive collector values!

$4300 was a LOT of money for a car in 1970, which is one of the reasons these “specialty” models sold so poorly. Same for cars with Hemi engines— the extra cost for that engine option made buyers choose other engines. Now the rarity and desirability of the Hemi makes original Hemi cars stupid valuable.

ateamfan42 > icanneverremembermyburnercode 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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Can’t argue with your point for convenient and efficiently run BMVs. Unfortunately, many are neither: located hours away, and often backed up with very long wait times (not to mention rude staff).

Of course, none of that counters the point that immediately re-titling the car along with the sale is a very good idea. The system just makes that a challenge, which makes it so much less likely people will actually take that action.

ateamfan42 > m4ximusprim3 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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Probably not totally legal and all, but seeing as it was still titled in my name and the guy was nowhere to be found, I figured it was safe enough.

Since the new buyer never titled the car, I would argue what you did was actually completely legal. You legally owned the car, claimed your property, and re-sold it.

Whether it was ETHICAL or not is a different argument. Since the buyer’s irresponsibility caused you some hassle with the authorities, and you did make an attempt to contact the buyer, I don’t think you should lose any sleep over your actions.

sadfasdf > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

2

In some states (Alaska, off the top of my head), the license plate stays with the car.

SteveLehto > sadfasdf 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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And in CA. I made a note of that (in the subtitles) in the video but could not figure out how to subtitle the podcast.

Thanks.

Scott-R > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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We are dealing with a case like this at work right now. Several years ago, we sold an old company pickup to an employee who no longer works for us. We filed a Notice of Title Transfer with the State of Texas, but the employee has never registered or titled the vehicle in his name.

Apparently, said employee is now homeless because we received a call from a local apartment complex that he was sleeping in the truck. She had run the plates and gotten our information.

Also, we have a parking ticket with the local PD on this vehicle and they are trying to collect. I have contacted them, but they require a written bill of sale for the vehicle as proof. They will not accept the Notice of Title Transfer only. We have told them to go ahead and boot the vehicle when they find it.

m4ximusprim3 > ateamfan42 12/31/2015 at 09:00

1

Oh, I don’t :)

While it’s dubiously ethical to accept consideration for an item and then retain ownership and resell it, I figure that given that I was (and still am) ready to remunerate the original buyer should he contact me, that’s enough to make me sleep fine at night.

LegsMalone > ateamfan42 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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The redneck way of my youth always seemed to work pretty well. Take a plate from one of the many cars that isn't running, slap that fucker on and drive the speed limit on the way home.

amaROenuZ > fourvalleys 12/31/2015 at 09:00

1

100% worth having a paper trail. You never know what you’re getting into when you sell someone with a used car, and for all you know they might end up plowing it into a pedestrian.

ateamfan42 > LegsMalone 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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Like many illegal things, only a problem if you get caught.

I wouldn’t risk that. At least in my state, putting a plate on a car that doesn’t belong with that car carries a far worse punishment than driving with an unregistered car. The penalties may actually be criminal, and not just a traffic complaint.

TXNIL > JaggerTheDog 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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Sorry, I didn’t see the /sarc tags. :(

fourvalleys > amaROenuZ 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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Someone told me last week that in Massachusetts (I think?) that any issue (mechanical or safety) that isn’t disclosed can fall under the Lemon Law, even from private parties. If it doesn’t pass inspection within 7 days (or if repairs to get it to pass are over 10% of the value), then the sale can be canceled.

That’s not really relevant to this post, I just thought it was crazy. What if I give up on my old project and dump it for nothing? Are you going to complain that I didn’t explicitly tell you the alternator was bad if the car didn’t run at all? If it’s a safety issue, fine. If it’s mechanical.... yikes.

I think it’s got to be pretty hard to prove that a seller knew about an issue and omitted it, but it still seems like a pretty “out there” law.

Tohru > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

2

Wisconsin actually passed a new law, effective tomorrow, requiring you to notify the DOT when you sell a car. You can do it online. I still don’t like it though.

342.41 Identity of buyer.

(1) Notwithstanding s. 342.15 (Transfer of Interest in a Vehicle -Ed) , after December 31, 2015, no individual may sell a motor vehicle to another individual, including transferring a junk vehicle by bill of sale, unless within 30 days of the sale the seller reports to the department the identification number of the vehicle and the identity of the individual buyer.

(2) The department shall accept electronically information related to the sale of the motor vehicle, including all of the information required to be reported under sub. (1) .

JaggerTheDog > TXNIL 12/31/2015 at 09:00

1

You know what? It’s ok! Happy New Year (in however many hours depending on where you live)!

The MattMac > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

1

As if you needed more anecdotes..

This very thing happened to my wife. Sold her car cash to another woman via Craigslist. Cash was exchanged, and Michigan title was not transferred or notarized. Fast-forward a month, and we get a bill for towing, impounding in addition to a ticket for the “abandoned car”. It was nearly $2,000. My wife never wrote down the woman’s full name, and had zero proof she had ever actually sold the vehicle.

Fortunately, the tow company was willing to waive the fees, because they felt bad for my wife. Police officers also waived the ticket, because she had purchased a new car and registered it, which they fortunately took as “proof” she had previously sold the vehicle in question. Definitely more mercy than was legally necessary by both the tow company and the police. To this day, I’m amazed she was able to walk away from that without a penalty.

wcjeep > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

1

Never trust family to transfer the title. Always file the appropriate paperwork per your state rules.

LegsMalone > ateamfan42 12/31/2015 at 09:00

0

Yeah, I’m not familiar with the differences in penalties. I just remember my father and his friends pulling crap like that. I just risk it and drive to the DMV first thing while hoping for the best.

Rawbar > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

1

I have never bought or sold a car from or to anybody that lives in the same state as me. Far as I can tell from this podcast, the only practical thing with an interstate sale is not to let the buyer leave with your plates. I did buy a car in AZ and drove it back to MA with the seller’s plates on it, it did seem odd to do it that way, but it was her idea to accelerate the sale. Of course I was pulled over in OH because some suspicious cop ran the plate for no apparent reason and saw two guys driving a car registered to a woman. Pulled me over after following me for 30 minutes waiting for me to make an error, told me it was because I was following a tractor trailer too closely. Even pulled into a gas station when we did and the cop followed my friend into the bathroom. WTF?? I had all the paperwork, he let us off with a warning after keeping us on the side of the road for an hour. They must be pretty bored in Ohio.

Buick Mackane > icanneverremembermyburnercode 12/31/2015 at 09:00

0

Good idea but,

Most people hate going to the DMV or Secretary of State offices just like going to the dentist. Can you imagine anyone going to the DMV to stand in line just to sell a car? Filling out a release of liability form and keeping copies of the sales receipt will suffice. I would also demand to make a photocopy of the buyers driver’s license as a condition of sale, if he balks don’t sell it to him/her.

sadfasdf > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

1

Having only purchased cars in AK and CA previously, I was pretty confused when I bought one in NV.

Burn-Spaz1966-Burn > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

1

“Hello we have an impound yard, we have your car in our yard.”

Spaz, “I Sold it”.

Impound Yard,”Well your the registered owner, you need to pay this.”

Spaz, “Good Luck with that.”

Car was Sold to lady who didn’t register or get Insurance, got into car totaling wreck and ran away, later become a Guest of the County.

I got lucky, the Tow company had found out who and where she was, and how much money she had. They just were trying to get me to pay the towing and storage fee.

Could have been:

Sean > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

1

In Australia you can’t sell a car without also changing the ownership title. You have a green form and a red form (identical copies - one for seller, one for buyer...). Each person fills in and signs their respective form.

It’s in the sellers interest to submit this form ASAP because otherwise all government licensing, fines, costs etc keep coming to you. The buyer has 14 days to submit their form. If they don’t then the Dept. of Transport registers they only have one half of the forms and goes and chases up the buyer (they know this because all parties names and details are on each form), and fine him for not submitting the form plus bust him again for not paying the transfer fees and taxes which is called stamp duty. This is set at $3.00 for every $100.00 of the purchase price.

Now, on a side issue you’d think everyone would simply state the purchase price as $100 and so only pay $3.00 in tax? But the government states on the back of the form that the stamp duty is set “at the purchase price OR an appropriate average market value” for the vehicle. So if they think you’ve understated the value/purchase price of the car, the government can review the car (send a valuer around to inspect it - at your cost btw) and set whatever price they feel the car is actually worth...

TL;DR - Anyway, you’re better off just submitting the forms and paying the fees...

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

1

Good show. Makes me scared to ever sell my car to anyone but a real dealer.

What about AAA offices? Don't they do title services for members, and the lines, hours, and service levels certainly exceed those of the California DMV. It would be easier I think to get a buyer to go with you to one of those offices.

Needmoargarage > chevelle.chris 12/31/2015 at 09:00

1

The SOS website confirms this. In MI, you are allowed to drive the most direct route home from a sale without plates...but that’s it.

Gizmo - The Only Good Gremlin, but don't feed me after Midnight > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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So let’s say I report the sale to the DMV which starts the 15 day clock. I check with the DMV on day 16, title’s not transfered.

Can I now report the car as stolen? And use that as defense against liability?

SteveLehto > Gizmo - The Only Good Gremlin, but don't feed me after Midnight 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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The car wasn’t stolen, though. This all depends on the state but this is the problem.

jimz > chevelle.chris 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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“You do not need a license plate to drive a newly purchased vehicle directly home within Michigan within three days of purchase. Carry the assigned title and proof of insurance with you. Never use a plate from another vehicle as a substitute.”

http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,1607,7-1…

jimz > benn454 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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the median household income back then was $8,500/year. That would be the equivalent of someone today making $80,000 buying a $40,000 car. Which I feel safe in assuming is quite common.

jimz > Burn-Spaz1966-Burn 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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you’re lucky, if they were total scuzzbags they could have sent you to a collections agency (the only companies scuzzier than towing companies.)

jimz > JaggerTheDog 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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and at least the Superbird had standard discs up front. pop the front wheel off of a regular Roadrunner and you might find this:

jimz > The MattMac 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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Ugh. loads of FAIL there. if nothing else, always always ALWAYS draw up a bill of sale (two copies) and have both you and the buyer sign their full names to both copies. keep one as proof. I still have the bill of sale from a car I sold 3+ years ago, just in case.

and if the Craigslist rando buyer won’t sign anything, they can take a hike.

jimz > Rawbar 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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that would be illegal in Michigan since plates here are tied to the owner and not the vehicle. you would be doing the equivalent of driving with a phony plate.

asenna > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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in MA you sign the tile over to them if you have a copy of that plus the bill of sale...that is not enough? What is the situation if say the person who called with the issue of unpaid highway tolls just reports the car stolen?

asenna > asenna 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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selling a car is such a pain.

SteveLehto > asenna 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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If it wasn’t stolen, you shouldn’t report that it was. Not sure about MASS in particular, but I would do whatever I could to make sure the buyer followed through on the title.

MrEvil > SteveLehto 12/31/2015 at 09:00

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The best way to nudge the buyer to retitle the car to them is to RETAIN YOUR PLATES. In Texas you can retain the license plates on the vehicle forcing the buyer to get a transit permit (good for 5 days) and then re-title the vehicle in their name.

Or just do the final transaction at the tax office and retain the plates. Then the buyer doesn’t have to go very far to get the vehicle back on the road again.