1971 Citroen DS21 ie - The Oppo Review

Kinja'd!!! "Flavien Vidal" (flyingfrenchy)
12/26/2015 at 08:00 • Filed to: None

31 88

The Citroen DS is, along with the 2CV and perhaps the SM, a symbol of the french automotive industry around the world. Its incredibly weird mechanical and hydraulic systems, ingenious and over-engineered, would, throughout the years, define “french awesomeness” and “french mechanical nightmares” like nothing else.

This particular 1971 DS21ie Pallas (“ie” stands for “injection électronique”) came with the semi-automatic hydraulic “Citro-matic” transmission. With the slightly more powerful DS23ie, this is the DS that collectors want, sometimes at all cost, with prestine low-mileage un-restored cars being sold for way over 50000€ (55000 USD). This is not one of those despite fitting the criterias/options for being desirable. I payed 9500€ for it (the cheapest running citromatic DS in France at the time) and it is in need of a good restoration. A manual Pallas will cost about 4000€ less in similar conditition. It will be restored in Japan early next year.

Anyway, let’s figure out how this car/boat/spaceship stands on the OppositeLock grading scale!

Exterior: 8/10

Despite appealing to my personal taste, I think it passes the test of time and still today doesn’t look outdated. Strange, unique, futuristic? Yes, of course, but Bertoni and Lefèbvre’s creation manages to still turn heads and put smiles on people’s faces today, and this is what matters in a car like this. If it’s known, loved and appreciated by almost everybody 60 years after the first car rolled out of the factory, it’s a design win in my book.

Interior: 8/10

Leather, massive door handles, ashtrays everywhere, leg room in the front and in the back. This is the perfect luxury french car. Quality is not comparable with what France produced a few decades later. It is robust, well built, well finished and it lasts for many, many years. This specific car was clearly not very well taken care of, but the interior took it like a champ. Appart from the seats that need some new leather, the rest of the car still look very good today and everything works, which is quite incredible for something french on wheels.

Toys: 6/10

Lots of buttons! What do they do?? If, like me, you don’t have the car’s manual and have to figure it out yourself, that will drive your interest for thousands of kilometers! You can also raise the car up and down on the fly while driving and that, my friend, will make your local stanced-Hondas community jealous as hell!!

Audio: 4/10

This specific car was not fitted with a radio, so you had the engine to listen to instead and the least we can say is that it’s not fantastic. The 2.1L inline 4 cyclinder engine’s sound is mediocre at best. Maybe the carbed version sounds better, but the injection model... meh.

Acceleration: 5/10

I have been a bit underwhelmed with this. I was expecting a bit more grunt and the 109hp engine coupled with the very long gears is slow. It will still reach 150km/h with no trouble whatsoever, but it will take lots of time to get there. I will go over this in the “gearbox” section of the test, but downshifting at speed being rather weird and difficult, this lack of power does not help at all. The more powerful 2.3L fuel injected engine that produces 140hp is definitly recommended in order to glide in style across countries.

Braking: 9.5/10

Yes NINE POINT FIVE OUT OF TEN! It’s THAT good. Not only is braking extremely powerful, but with the disc brakes being located against the gearbox, on the inner drive-shafts instead of against the wheels, it is one of the most stable and perfectly straight braking I’ve ever experienced in a car. Simply incredible! Replacing discs is... another story though. Citroen billed 9 hours of work in order to change discs which are terribly hard to access. It is also impossible to speak of Citroen brakes without mentionning the infamous mushroom brake that replaces the pedal. I personally love it! It takes 30 seconds to get used to and you will also love it, I promise you! Little downside being that if the hydraulic system fails while you drive, the brakes will fail as well. Just a little detail, not that big of a deal.

Ride: 9/10

What Citroen DS are known for. This is one of the most confortable car I’ve ever driven. Sure you feel a bit disconnected from the road, but going over speed bumps and railway crossings without even bothering to slow down is awesome. Coupled with very typical ultra soft seats with no holding capabilities whatsoever, you have a car that can be easily compared to a sofa on wheels. Doing thousands of miles at a time is no big deal in this and you will arrive at your destination (if it doesn’t break down before that) fresh and ready to do whatever you want.

Gearbox: 2/10

It sucks. I hated it, plain and simple. While shifting up is fairly easy and relatively smooth, getting the car to go smoothly and downshifting at speed are a pain in the ass! Downshifts at speed require you to blip the throttle to rev-match the engine. It’s IMPOSSIBLE to do it correctly! I’ve managed to do it 3 times in total since I have owned the car (you can watch one of those time at 7min05 in the test drive video!). Usually it will just slam itself into a lower gear with more or less brutality (8min30 in the same test drive video) and won’t give you enough time to revmatch it properly. I HATE this transmission.

Handling: 7/10

It’s actually fairly decent for a boat on wheels. It will understeer like crazy of course, but it grips fairly well and it is an extremely predictable car. The suspension system keeps the body roll to a minimum and the car, a bit fat and goofy, is almost fun to drive.

Value: 8/10

Like with most cars I review, its value won’t be going down anytime soon. A normal Ds21 or 23 Pallas goes for around 15 to 20000 euros in France and prices can double or triple outside of the country. Even if I think a cheaper (and slower) ID would be a better investment for exportation, this one is still bound to see its price go up and up and up for the next few years. A very good investment, granted that you can do your own mechanical work on it of course.

Total: 66.5/100

The Citroen DS21ie or any other DS for that matter, is a car to drive at least once in your life. Something you might not understand immediatly, but that you will definitly get once you get yourself behind the wheel. Find one, drive one, enjoy one. Add this to your to-do list before you die, it is your duty as a Jalop.

DISCUSSION (88)

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

I would love to drive a DS sometime, but I HAVE driven a ‘37 Traction Avant 11cv Legere, and after that experience a Slough Built 11CV Legere remains my attainable classic dream car. Much more affordable than a DS or even an ID but almost as special, for different reasons.

Flavien Vidal > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Yes both cars are VERY different, but I understand the appeal for the traction :)

Not a car I would ever wanna own myself, but I definitely understand the appeal some have for it.

Cé hé sin > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

These are getting expensive, aren’t they? You can still sometimes meet unrestored ones on the road but in another few years they’ll be living in secure garages and only appear once or twice a year.

I’ve seen one of the Chapron convertibles advertised for €250,000.

I was interested to hear about the BVH gearbox - some people love them but more hate them. I don’t think any maker has used one before or since.

Cé hé sin > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Kinja'd!!!

Nice to see the steering lights still work!

Flavien Vidal > Cé hé sin
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Prices have been on the rise lately yes, but IDs and manual DS are still somewhat affordable if you don’t mind a little bit of restoration work. A nice manual ID can be bought for 8000$ and I think it’s a very fair price for one.

And as far as the Citromatic gearbox is concerned, it’s awful. It works well if you drive like my grand pa and wait until the car is about to stall to downshift. But if you like to enjoy your cars, forget it, it’s fucking terrible!!! Really hated it lol

Cé hé sin > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Is the BVH DS more in demand? I looked up prices and the ones I found were almost all manual 5 speed IEs with prices of up to £40,000 (or rather less in France).

Flavien Vidal > Cé hé sin
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Yes, by far... these are the “most Citroen” gearboxes ever and the rarest also. In France, they sell for quite a premium. I don’t like them and I wouldn’t have bought one if I wasn’t buying the car for a friend who really wanted it in the first place. Some kind of masochism he has I guess... it sucks. Don’t buy one :)

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

yes, 20-second 0-100kph can be a bit off-putting, but the marvelous handling for something of that vintage, hell, even by today’s standards a good TA could be described as “sprightly” in the corners appeals to me, as well as the ingenious engineering and amazing brakes and classic look. I have considered, when/if I have the space, building a TA race car, or maybe even just a restomod... Though a stock TA is already closer a modified version of anything else its vintage

Flavien Vidal > Cé hé sin
12/26/2015 at 08:00

The system in itself is sooooo basic it can never fail. It’s just a bar that is attached directly to the steering. The lights are on a pivot and they turn along with the steering. It’s incredibly basic and can’t really ever break down :)

Something inovative that can’t fail. Almost doesn’t sound french but it is!

Karl Nelson > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

My 1972 DS21 is the same color! I’m debating restoring to original spec or respraying the color I really want: bleu delta, a fantastic metallic aquamarine that debuted in 1974.

The half point you deducted from the brakes is unfair, though. If the hydraulic pump fails, the brake accumulator still holds enough pressure for something like two dozen emergency stops. So really the brakes should score 10/10.

Flavien Vidal > Karl Nelson
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Oh I didn’t deduct the half point for this :)

I deducted it because afterall a shitload of other cars brake better than the DS, but not many make you feel as confident and safe doing it haha

The 9.5/10 is only here because a 10/10 would have been too much :)

Karl Nelson > Karl Nelson
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Also, if your citromatic is slamming into gear on downshifts, it is in dire need of adjustment. The rate of clutch engagement is tricky to dial in, but when set properly it should be smooth no matter the level of shifting skill.

Flavien Vidal > Karl Nelson
12/26/2015 at 08:00

And btw, keep it original... These car are really gaining in value and are a good investment for the future. Whether or not you will sell it at some point is irrelevant. Unless it’s a classic performance car you bought to modify (911, 240Z...etc), don’t do it and restore as close to original as possible. You won’t regret if you ever end up getting rid of it :)

JayHova > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Kinja'd!!!

What’s going on with the hole in the numberplate?

Flavien Vidal > JayHova
12/26/2015 at 08:00

haha, no idea! And look at the rear one... Color of the numbers is fading away. I’m sure this car wants to go undercover! (or die in peace... could be really :) )

Paul > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

How well the Citromatic works depends in large part on how well it is setup. I’ve had one for about 3 years and the precision and smoothness of both up and down shifts is just amazing. Also known as the bvh transmission, it really makes the car.

Handling is surprisingly good and of course the ride is phenomenal.

2cvhoonage > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Awesome! I’ll have one of these when I graduate from my 2cv, but I’m with you on the suspension bit. It’s not the same system, but the 2cv’s suspension is so soft that I do quite often accelerate for speed bumps for the fun of it. You feel them enough to know that you’ve gone over something, but only enough to notify you, never more.

“dear occupant, the surface is rather bumpy around here, you shouldn’t worry, I’ll take care of it, but I thought it right to let you know, carry on as you would.”

-the height of driver/chassis communication in a Citroën 2cv.

Flavien Vidal > Paul
12/26/2015 at 08:00

yeah I haven’t played with the infamous hydraulic clutch regulator whatever that smoothen or not the gearshift. I will when it gets here (didn’t the long allen key to do it on the spot) but still... Downshifts when you try to drive a bit faster than usual are just horrible!! And I always drive faster than usual so...

Flavien Vidal > 2cvhoonage
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Yes, exactly this. Such an awesome thing to actually aim for bumps and potholes when you drive around :)

Karl Nelson > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

This was my grandfather’s car, so I doubt I'll sell it. I'm inly torn because the gold on yellow fabric is probably my least favorite combo, and the car needs a full restoration. I have a set of turning headlights to put on, and while I like the Pallas interior, I hate the exterior side moulding. I much prefer the cleaner lines of the body without that ugly trim.

Karl Nelson > JayHova
12/26/2015 at 08:00

That hole is where you out the tool to crank-start the engine in case your starter fails. Yes, you could crank-start the DS by hand until 1975.

Flavien Vidal > Karl Nelson
12/26/2015 at 08:00

I’m personnally a partisan of the “keep it the way it;s supposed to be even if it sucks” way of thinking... Now it’s entirely up to you, but this type of car is, I think, something that’s supposed to be stay the way it was built in every way, uglyness and goofy details included :)

Les-Patterson > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
12/26/2015 at 08:00

I see a silver one of these Citroens with the Maserati V-6 driving around Vancouver occasionally in the summer (Burt Reynolds is not in it). There used to be a garage on Quebec Street that specialized in repairing Citroens. I would drive by it on the way to work and slow down to look at the old rusty Citroens on collapsed hydro pneumatic suspensions some of them missing doors or hoods. I would look into the engine compartments on the ones missing hoods and I could see unusual bulbous tanks and hoses and other components that were so strange to me that I never wanted to buy one to repair myself. In my mind I could hear the cars swearing at me in French like a bunch of over the hill hookers smoking and spitting as I drove by in the polar opposite of a Citroen, a Chev van.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xc12t4_b…

Paul > JayHova
12/26/2015 at 08:00

The hole in the front plate is for the hand crank. I have never tried to start the car with it, but you need the hole to access the transmission when adjusting the clutch clearance for the Citromatic.

2cvhoonage > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

I’m watching your video now man, and dreaming of when I’ll get my french financial pit. I’ve already got a second car a la Lancia Fulvia. It’s a fabulous car, but it’s a tricky car to keep. The only thing holding me back is the idea of both my cars being temperamental bitch queens. The 2cv is one of those classics that works as a primary car because it works with minimal attention. It’s so much more reliable than the Lancia even though it’s got twice the mileage, and it’s a very rare luxury to be able to treat a classic like a modern car. Some day, it might come to a crunch of selling the Italian for the dream Frenchie. I can think of no worse dilemma for my automotive mind.

palandi > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

nice review, Flavien. just out of curiosity: why will you restore the car in Japan?

Flavien Vidal > palandi
12/26/2015 at 08:00

I’m french, married to a japanese and I live in Japan :)

Flavien Vidal > 2cvhoonage
12/26/2015 at 08:00

I’m actually working on getting myself a Lancia Fulvia Zagato 1.3s... I have a VERY good deal on one (1st serie, in very good condition and at avery low price I won’t even mention here haha) and might get it if all goes well by mid-2016 :)

JayHova > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Apparently it is for the hand-crank starter.

Rev Les Crowley > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

It was the car of the future in 1955, and still is. Let down by the very agricultural engine (I’ve only driven a manual, which was ... OK). OMG, they’ve gotten expensive.

JayHova > Karl Nelson
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Makes sense. Also: 1975 isn’t that late. The Lada Niva still had a crank starter in the mid-nineties (possibly as late as 1998).

Vitor > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Flavien i keep coming back at your articles. Congratulations for your new toy. My grandfather was not a petrol head, he bought a car and made it last 15 years before changing it, he always bought a sensible good value for money car. So he never bought a DS. When i was 18 and just got my drivers license we were talking about cars (it was 1992 ou 1993) He said the most fantastic car he ever drove was the DS. Please enjoy your new toy

The80thARG > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

I’ve had two DSs here in the States. The first one, a ‘74 DSuper 5 which I imported from Europe and the second, a ‘72 DS21 in Vert Argente with the BVH gearbox. I wasn’t terribly fond of the Super 5 as I actually preferred the BVH..it reminded me, in a strange way, of the F1 gearbox in my Maserati.

Anyhow, good on you for finding an injection version. That's what I wish I'd have been able to find.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

The engine does sound a little agricultural... but not terrible. Definitely an interesting car.

Keith > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Don’t most brake systems fail if there’s a hydraulic failure? Other than your cable e-brake if you’re lucky

NoahFect > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Interesting, TIL what Jane Child was singing about.

I expected a much faster car...

I'm Abe Froman > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Apparently there are adjustments for the transmission which can make it slower or faster - perhaps that needs tending too?

2cvhoonage > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Oh my, give us a good review on that one please! It’s an excellent car that doesn’t get the exposure it sorely deserves. I don’t blame you for not mentioning the price! I was on track to buy a blue coupe, which was a medium level project car, then the one I actually bought came up at almost half the price and with far less work needed. I called the guy within an hour of it going on sale and bought it that weekend, with 3 other interested people waiting for my first refusal. The supply of fulvias doesn’t meet the demand for them, and great deals don’t last long, but it’s in my mind the perfect car for the money. This is the shortest way I can put it: it rides like a Mercedes, it looks like an Alfa, it handles like a Mini and it sounds like a Ferrari. You don’t find that recipe very often, much less in its price range.

BlurpleToyotaDishwasher > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

I saw one of those a couple of months back, they look amazing. I’m absurdly envious right now!

bison78 > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Replacing discs is... another story though. Citroen billed 9 hours of work in order to change discs which are terribly hard to access.

I think that when this car was built, the designers did not expect that the discs would ever be changed. Asbestos pads were used then, which did not wear down the discs in the same manner as modern pads. The only reason to replace the discs would be if they were scored through a failure to replace the pads in time.

bison78 > bison78
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Can I get out of the grey, please?

auragoneboy > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

“Coupled with very typical ultra soft seats with no holding capabilities whatsoever, you have a car that can be easily compared to a sofa on wheels.”

While at University, Edd China created the Casual Lofa (driving sofa) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edd_China

RileyE > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

I want either a DS21 or an SM, and I’ll be a happy camper. Well, until they break down lol

Cé hé sin > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Even before looking up Département 50 I thought that the video must be in Normandy or Brittany - I spent several years holidaying in a borrowed house in rural Dépt 61 and it looks very familiar!

Flavien Vidal > Cé hé sin
12/26/2015 at 08:00

It was shot in Bretagne :)

Normandy is where I bought the car.

Flavien Vidal > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Yeah, but for an inline 4, it’s quite bad really... Not awful of course, just nothing special

fintail > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Ah back before French cars became so likely to be shite.

Can’t see a late run DS without thinking of this car:

Kinja'd!!!

Thanks dad.

Flavien Vidal > bison78
12/26/2015 at 08:00

It is not supposed to be changed indeed, but if the car pulled trailers or anything heavy, or just if you drove in the mountain often, the brakes do warp fairly easily despite being absolutly massive.

As for being in the greys, there is nothing much I can do unfortunatly, you need to get Jalopnik to “follow you” if I recall correctly. Since i answer you on this one, this specific question will be out of the greys, but the next time you will write something, you will be in the greys again.

Flavien Vidal > Vitor
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Thanks! Yes, the DS is an alltime favorite for many people. Not my style of car personally, but I understand why some see it that way :)

Flavien Vidal > The80thARG
12/26/2015 at 08:00

If I bring back another DS at one point, it will be anormal manual one. Fuck these gearboxes haha

I like my downshifts to be smooth and perfect and that was extremely frustrating for me :)

I understand how practical injection is every day, but I love good ol’ carbs the best :)

Flavien Vidal > auragoneboy
12/26/2015 at 08:00

haha, I want to be Edd China one day :)

Flavien Vidal > Rev Les Crowley
12/26/2015 at 08:00

How they managed to screw up the sound and torque of an inline 4 is beyond me... I don’t get it really!

Flavien Vidal > Keith
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Yes and no... Pressure stays on for a long time, giving you plenty of time to stop. And yes, you still have the hand brake, which goes to the front brakes, allowing you to stop fairly easily if needed.

Flavien Vidal > RileyE
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Then you’ll be camping on the side of the freeway :)

Flavien Vidal > 2cvhoonage
12/26/2015 at 08:00

A review will be done at some point yes :)

And the price... is way bellow market for a car that is in very good shape!

Flavien Vidal > I'm Abe Froman
12/26/2015 at 08:00

No, but it can be adjusted for smoothness with that green stuff on the picture, the “corrector of de-clutching-in” (not even kidding, it’s how it’s called in french lol)

Picture of another DS23 that is in Japan right now :)

Kinja'd!!!

bison78 > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

I am out of the grey in Jalopnik, but not oppositelock and other kinja sites. It appears that each kinja site needs to follow me.

Incidentally, many years ago, I owned a Citroen GS. Changing the handbrake pads was “interesting”. The handbrake operated on the front (inboard) disks, but had its own pads. To change them, the brake calipers had to be disassembled. I never undertook this job. Oh, and there was a hydraulic fluid return pipe that split and squirted fluid onto the front disks.

LeaksOil > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Thanks for the review & video. I was watching thinking is he going to up shift, …is he shifting yet,…then I heard how much the rpms dropped when you (seemingly) finally shifted. That explains how the car can make it up to 150kmh as you said, lol

I’ve only ever seen one in person here in the states. At the time I didn’t know anything about their history or whatnot & the owner was going on about them being rare. This one had a 4 speed manual and I remember I loved the shifter layout and steering wheel.

greenagain > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

It has a nice thrummm to it when you’re cooking along.

Flavien Vidal > bison78
12/26/2015 at 08:00

I am currently in the process of helping to change a transmission in DS23 with another hydromatic transmission. It’s a freaking mess... And yes, to change the hand brake pads, Citroen charged 9 hours of work also :)

Flavien Vidal > LeaksOil
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Yeah, the gears are REALLY long. It’s adapted to the DS23, but too long for the DS21...

palandi > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

wow. that makes sense.

I'm Brazilian and my dream is to marry a Japanese girl. any advice on it?

Flavien Vidal > palandi
12/26/2015 at 08:00

haha, Ideally you would just come here... Since you are Brazilian, it is very easy for you to get a work visa in Japan, so start from here. Brazil is the only country with an agreement with Japan, allowing Brazilians to get open work visas.

Miata2016GT > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Kinja'd!!!

This is my favorite car of all time. DON’T tell my Miata. I have essentially ZERO mechanical skills, or I’d have already found one to import. It’s gorgeous, unusual, and oh so French...

Flavien Vidal > Miata2016GT
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Mechanicaly wise it’s not that bad. If you have some plumbing skills, you can get through the whole hydraulic dilemna :)

Miata2016GT > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

True, and I am sure a mechanic could also figure this stuff out... the REAL problem arises when you consider that I am in the US... parts would essentially be unobtanium other than ordering from EU

Jugstopper > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Kinja'd!!!

French humor at its finest.

gofry > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

I used to park cars at a fancy restaurant when I was a teenager and we would park these every once in a while (along with the Maserati powered later versions). The buttons and toggles were confounding. I think the ignition was on the floor (a la Saab). The seats and suspension were amazing. Like many exotic cars that we parked, we would take them out for joyrides while the owners were dining.

Jugstopper > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

I was on foreign study in France in Spring ‘79. My family had two Citroens, a DS for the Dad and a 2CV for Mom. The Mom was a terrifying person to ride with in the 2CV, but that Dad’s DS was pure luxury. I have always wanted one. Enjoy your car!

The80thARG > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Well, if you want to sell your current car, let me know. I've since sold my last DS and do miss it, although an Austin Healey 100/6 has been consuming my time (and resources) since the departure of the Goddess...

Paul > Miata2016GT
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Actually parts are readily available and not terribly expensive. I recently replaced the boots on one of the axle shafts, total parts cost was about $80

With some basic mechanical skills and the original service and parts manuals, most repairs can be done by an owner

Sam > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

While the DS is a decent car, the SM is sooooo much better.

Gabiatche rides 2CVs and DSs for a Livin' > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

yeah the gearbox isn’t exactly meant for a sporty driving (although you can try to ask De Gaulles’s driver about that bit of fast driving he did in Petit-Clamart, he might have hints on how to handle this) I drive one regularly for work and it’s definitely more suited for a relaxed cruise than canyin-carving.

Gabiatche rides 2CVs and DSs for a Livin' > JayHova
12/26/2015 at 08:00

it’s for hand cranking that Bitch babe when she doesn’t want to... the engine being quite older in conception than the car itself, it was designed to be handcranked when needed...

Gabiatche rides 2CVs and DSs for a Livin' > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Have you noticed anything such as a pothole while driving a Citroën? it’s one of those things people keep on talking about but it must be some kind of urban legend, cause I never felt any...

JorgeGlass > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Regardless, still a beautiful car.

duurtlang > Miata2016GT
12/26/2015 at 08:00

parts would essentially be unobtanium other than ordering from EU

I don’t really see this as a problem, as long as you don’t rely on the car as a daily driver. It’s become very easy nowadays to order from across the pond. It merely takes a bit longer and might cost a little bit more. Still though, there are lots of DSs still on the road and parts availability (in Europe) is great for a car its age.

tapzz > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Kinja'd!!!

If it’s a ‘73, why does it have the earlier door handles?

tapzz > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

With the slightly more powerful DS23ie, this is the DS that collectors want

Most probably do. I’d personally dream of a ‘67 ID; old nose and dashboard, new LHM system and a hydropneumatic system of more or less sane complexity.

Kinja'd!!!

Flavien Vidal > tapzz
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Well, I just double checked and... it’s a 1970-71 model lol (first licensed the 6 of april 1970???)

I mistook the year with the 1973 NSU Ro80 I bought too (review coming soon...). The NSU is the only 1973 car I bought...

Correcting it now :)

tapzz > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
12/26/2015 at 08:00

I’m with you on Tractions in general, though I think I’d prefer a Parisian one: they look nicer to me with less chrome, a steel dashboard and cloth seats.

Not sure about the restomod route. The whole thing – drivetrain, suspension, brakes, body – was designed very much as a unit in 1934, for an engine with 32 bhp. They managed to stretch it to 60 bhp for the 11 D Légère in the four cylinder line, or 77 bhp for the big 15 six. Beyond that, I think you might be pushing so far outside the envelope that you’re effectively engineering a new car without the resources of a factory.

Stock 11s and 15s are still being used as rally cars, though!

Kinja'd!!!

tapzz > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Looking forward to the Ro80 piece; that’s quite the major 20th century classic collection you’ve got there!

Flavien Vidal > tapzz
12/26/2015 at 08:00

I LOVE this car... The engine has been upgraded to a 13b 3 rotor mazda engine that has been tuned and pulls 175hp. I drove the original car and this upgrade is exactly what it needed. It still works the same, with the gear lever clutch and it’s still a rotary. It’s just that much more powerful and smoother. Perfect car that should have been made that way from the get go :)

2cvhoonage > BlurpleToyotaDishwasher
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Me too actually! I saw one for the first time at the NEC classic car show in birmingham england, they let me sit in it when I told them how I owned a 1.3s coupe and I was very exited to finally see a zagato in the flesh. I never really got the fuss about the Zagatos before, it’s not really much more phenomenal looking than the coupe in my mind so I didn’t see why I’d want to pay twice the price for one. I changed my mind after I sat in it.

The dash and controls all feel the same, but the seat is so damn comfortable, and the trunk is enormous, and open to the cabin of course. It probably drives the same through the corners, but if the sleek body is actually advantageous over the coupe at high speed, and I suspect it probably is, than I have to have one. It’s like making a fulvia that can do really long distances comfortably without removing any of the key bits about the coupe driving experience.

Effectively it merges the concepts of two of my favourite cars, the Fulvia coupe, and the Citroen SM, what finer recipe could anyone want in a car? I have to have one for my annual England to Switzerland ski drives, could you imagine that? Ugh, no car has the right to be this perfect.

Gary Yogurt > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

I can’t believe I missed this! Great review of a great car, it makes me miss my friend Michel, an ex-Citroën mechanic who’s been in poor health. Haven’t heard much from him since he moved back to Avignon. Keep us posted on the restoration!

Flavien Vidal > Gary Yogurt
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Thanks! nothing special on the review though, I just follow a way over-used reviewing format :)

As for the car I’ll post on OppositeLock about it in the near future. The car is scheduled to arrive in Japan around the 24 of January. I don’t think restoration will start until march though. I’ll check on it almost on a daily baisis though so don’t worry haha

SilverBRADo totaled his beigeslushboxmatrix > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Neat! I got to see a Traction Avant, 2 2CV’s, and several DS’s at the EURO Auto Festival in Greenville, SC this year. The Traction Avant was smaller than I thought it would be based on pictures. I got to look at them and tale a few pictures, but that was all of course. If I had gotten chummy with some of the owners, I’m sure some of them would have let me sit in and maybe even start them (IDK if that’s allowed anyway). It was my first time attending.

Margin Of Error > Flavien Vidal
12/26/2015 at 08:00

Is there a clutch pedal or it’s some kind of semi auto box ?